Top Secrets of Marketing & Sales

Building and strengthening client relationships is critical. Some people feel like they can get more attention from a salesperson calling than they get at home because maybe they feel like this person's listening, paying attention and then asking about it. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing strengthening client relationships. Welcome back. Jay: Hey, David, once again. It's great to be here and I think that this is another really, really important topic. The key word for me is relationships. I think that oftentimes you see people with a business model who want to "turn 'em and burn 'em," so to speak, and they don't think about that word, relationships and how important it is. David: Yeah. And very often, even if they don't intend to do it, the tendency among many salespeople is to get in there, make the sale, move on, get to the next one, get to the next one, get to the next one. And when it happens this way, it's very difficult to really maximize the value of those relationships in terms of dollars, but also just in terms of the relationship itself. When you do that, when you just get in there, you sell something and then you move on to the next one, you're not really building and nurturing a relationship, which is critical if you don't want to have to constantly replace the clients that you're losing because you're not maintaining those relationships in the first place. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is that there is for most companies a customer acquisition cost. And so if you've already paid that cost to get that customer, well, that goes away if you can build a relationship and they continue to use you. That to me is just such an important approach. If you're just doing it one at a time, you're going to pay that cost every single time, and it's going to lower your profit margins. David: I completely agree, and people talk about that sort of thing all the time. We all know that it costs a whole lot less to resell an existing customer than it does to find and sell a new customer. We all know it intellectually, but it is rarely practiced as well as it could be and should be within most businesses. You know, an analogy that helped me a lot was when I realized that when we're building a client base, it's a little like building a brick wall. You know, you get that first brick in place and then you get the next brick in place and the next brick in place, right? So your first year in business, you've got this sort of layer of bricks. These are each of the initial customers that you brought in. And then, your second year in business, if you're able to maintain all the customers you brought in the first time, then you can add on, you can layer in another layer of bricks, another layer of customers, and then your third year you can build in a third level and you can continue to grow it like that. And eventually you've got this great monolith of exceptional clients who continue to pay you money on an ongoing basis. But the problem is that we are not able to retain those customers. You get a crack in that, one of the bricks disappears from the first level, then your second year in business, you're starting out by plugging the holes. You have to replace those missing customers. And so everything takes a lot longer. You're essentially reconstructing your customer base, and a lot of it is unnecessary if we would just focus on strengthening and maintaining those client relationships. Jay: Yeah, and there's several ways to do that, right? Phone calls, emails, drip campaigns from your customer management system. There's a lot of ways to do that. But I got to tell you, you know, as somebody who's on the phone all day long doing sales,

To earn what you're worth, you need to find and eliminate the bottlenecks. Consider this: When you're outproducing what you are earning, that creates friction. It creates a bit of tension. And in most well-run organizations, the organization says, "this person needs to be compensated more." And if that's not happening in the organization you're with, if you are outproducing what you're earning, it means that there are plenty of opportunities for you somewhere else that will actually recognize and appreciate that value and reward you accordingly. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be asking the question, are you earning what you're worth? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David, it's great to be with you again. And as I was thinking about this question, I realize I'm not sure I know what I'm worth. I know some people that say, you know, my time is worth this much money, and if I'm not making it, then I've got to change something or do something. I'm not there yet. I'm just not. David: Yeah. I think you're not alone. I think there are a lot of people who struggle with this, and the real challenge comes in the last half of the question, you know what you're worth because can't answer the question until you determine that part of it. Are you earning it? Well, I don't know. I have to know what I'm worth. Or I have to decide what I'm worth, choose what I'm worth. Choose what I think I'm worth. I think, and I've said this to a number of people over the years, the reason that I ended up getting into business myself is that I couldn't find anybody else who would be willing to pay me what I thought I was worth. Right? , you work in different jobs and you say, okay, well I feel like I'm worth more than this. Well, when you start your own business, you're earning what you're worth because if you're not producing anything, you're not earning anything. And if you start earning stuff, then whatever you're producing justifies it. And so essentially you're earning what you're worth. But still, even with all that, a lot of times, those of us in sales or those of us who own businesses, may feel like the work that we're doing is costing us too much in terms of time and energy and effort and not producing what we're looking for in terms of financial results, which is the reason I ask the question. Jay: Yeah. I think it is so important that there's other ways to be paid for your worth. You know, if you're in a place where you get job recognition, where they listen to your ideas, where you can climb up the ladder, for a lot of people that's worth more than the bottom line paycheck. Now, if they're not getting enough to pay their bills, then obviously cash is king. But all of the surveys I've seen say that people would really take less money if they felt like they could get rewarded in other ways. Now, when you're working for yourself, that equation changes completely. David: Yeah. And I mean, a lot of times people start their own business. They do their own thing because they figure it's going to give them all sorts of time freedom and things that they don't have in a regular job. And very often they find out it's exactly the opposite. I think it was Michael Gerber, the author of the EMyth who talked about the fact that there are a lot of people who work for other companies and they say to themselves, "okay, this guy's a jerk. I'm going to start my own business." And they stop working for a jerk and they start working for a maniac... themselves. And when I heard that line I'm like, "that is so true." So often we will do things in our own businesses that we would probably never do for another employer in terms of the amount of hours that we'll put in,

Very often, inferior competitors play the price card: Jay: I get that question. "Well, I talk to your competitor and they're less expensive than you are." Well, now I have to find a way to let them know, yeah, we are more expensive, but there's a reason. And it's because we're very good at what we do and we have certain guarantees that they don't, or whatever it is. David: Yeah. A pack of cigarettes is cheaper too, but that can also kill you. No, that would not be a good answer. But sometimes it's what we feel like saying... David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host, Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of losing business to inferior competitors. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: It's good to be here, David, and this is one of the most frustrating things for me when I know that I have a better product, I have better customer service. I know this because I've heard complaints about my competitor and all of these things, but you lose it to them for whatever reason. Well, that can really ruin your day , and it can also affect your business. David: It really can. And I think just this idea and even the word inferior competitors, probably anyone in business who has competitors that you've run into has had this experience. And you're like, I can't believe they went with that person instead of us. You know that what you have is so much better and offers so much more and is going to transform the person in positive ways so much more than they will if they go the other way. And yet they go in that direction. It can be extremely frustrating. So when we think about this idea of how to avoid this, how to avoid losing business to inferior competitors, there are a number of different things that we can do. But I think it starts with recognizing, first of all, that they're out there. That there are a number of people out there who are not as good as we are. And then it's about, okay, how am I going to be able to communicate that to my prospects in a way that doesn't make me sound like I'm bitter, or make me sound like I'm frustrated? And that can be the challenge sometimes. Jay: Yeah, I agree. I have people regularly ask me, what's the difference between you and your competitor? And I find that you have to be very careful with this question. And the tactic that I've chosen is to say, here's the value that we can bring you. Here's what I know we can do. And I try and s teer it back or say, you know, I haven't worked with them directly, but let me tell you this is where we shine. And I know we're going to bring you success in this way because it's always been weird to me that somebody would believe what I say about my competitor. I'm the worst person to ask. It's like in politics when somebody runs an attack ad, why would you believe the guy who's, you know what I mean? It 's the worst person to ask, but we put so much faith and trust in it. David: Right. And I think, going exactly along that line, one of the things that we've tried to do when people come to us and they ask us about it, is we'll basically say to them, well, listen, anything I say is obviously going to be biased. Why don't I fill you in on some of what our customers have said about that topic? And then we've got videos and we've got audios, and we've got written testimonials of customers who have worked with us and we'll point them to that. And allow them to hear what other people just like them are saying about the products and services we offer. Sometimes there are situations where a customer will talk about a bad experience they had with one of our competitors and the reason they came to us, and so sometimes we'll share those stories as well. Say, well, listen,

When we're doing business-to-business or business-to-consumer outbound calls, those fears can be founded. Call reluctance can seem very real. They might very well say no. They might be rude, obnoxious, belligerent. They might say all kinds of things that you don't want to hear. So that's all true. That could happen. One of the things that helped me a lot though, is recognizing that we are not doing it for them. We are not doing this for the people who react like that. We are doing it for the people that we are ultimately going to help. And we can't get to the people that we are going to ultimately help without having to go through some of these people sometimes in between. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic, Is Call Reluctance Real? Jay: Listen, it's a pleasure to be here, David, and let me tell you, this is one of my biggest issues. I know it's real because I have a job where I spend a lot of time on the phone and man, there are days where I just do not want to do it. And what's funny is it's actually something that I enjoy, but it requires a certain level of energy. It requires that you are prepared and there is the occasional call that turns in a direction that I don't want to go. And so this is me to a T. I experience this on a regular weekly basis. David: Yeah, and the title is kind of provocative and I guess I sort of did that on purpose. Because anyone who has experienced this, that feeling of, "oh, I just don't feel like picking up the phone," is going to look at this and say, "well, yes, of course, it's real." And I think that when we just look at it as call reluctance, then it's easy to say, yes, it's real. What do we do about it? But the reason that I wanted to raise the topic is that I don't believe that call reluctance is actually the issue. if you boil it down, what does it mean? And when I did this for myself and for other people who were struggling with it, it all really just boils down to fear, right? It's some type of fear. It's not that we're really afraid of picking up the phone. That's the easy part. It's not that we're afraid of dialing, that's the easy part. It's about what's going to happen next. It's about that unknown. And I think that's what people struggle with, without even realizing that that's what they're struggling with. Jay: Yeah. So I mean, for me, fear of rejection, fear of the no, and I mentioned fear of the negative experience. You know, the guy who's asking the questions that I can't answer or wants to spend two hours on the phone and I only have 20 minutes for him or those kinds of things. You're right, it's all born out of fear. David: And what's interesting, too, is that today, if you have to pick up the phone and call somebody and you don't have an appointment with that person, the likelihood that they're actually even going to answer, that you're going to get to a live human being is probably what? 30%? 20%, right? 10%. I mean, most of them are going to go to voicemail. And so voicemails are kind of easy as long as you know what you're going to say when you get a voicemail message. So a lot of it, I mean, at least 80% of it, it's like, well, there shouldn't be any fear here because they're probably not going to answer. Right? But as you indicated, it's the fear of rejection. In some cases, it's the fear of success. And some people are like, "I've never had fear of success. I love success." Well, we all love success, but sometimes getting to that success can be a little frightening. It can be a little bit of a struggle. And sometimes it's just, hesitation is born out of fears that just haven't even manifested yet. Jay: Yeah. They're not real. And, for me,

If you want to avoid feeling overwhelmed, it's often just a good idea to take a moment and consider: What exactly is it that I'm struggling with at the moment? What are the specific things that make me feel overwhelmed? Then, what's the one thing I really need to be doing right now and what's the next step I can take toward making that happen? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be continuing our discussion on how to avoid feeling overwhelmed. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. It's good to be back and I'm really glad we're following up on this topic because after we recorded the last podcast, we kind of sat around and continued the discussion and thought, we need to share this with everybody as well. Before we were talking about self-awareness. But it really occurs to me that who you surround yourself with, especially on those days when you're feeling overwhelmed, that's going to be really important. David: Absolutely. And as you said, we started talking about it after the last podcast and the conversation got so good, I'm like, "we need to hit record and just keep going on this topic." Because you raised a great point, particularly related to who we're surrounding ourselves with. And very often when we are in that negative state that we had talked about in the previous episode, where we bring the wrong "us" to work, or the wrong us shows up to work, you know, the unmotivated, unfocused version of ourselves show up. When we do that, we limit the kind of people that we're even going to be able to interact with. Because most other motivated, focused people don't really want to be around that version of us. And so the more we bring that version of ourselves to work, the less likely we are going to be to get in front of other people who are going to help pull us out of whatever it is that we are stuck into. Jay: Yeah, and I think the exception to that, and I've experienced this, is if you have people who know you well enough and you've built trust with them and they are able to tell you and point out, you know, is everything okay? Because you kind of feel like you're off your game a little bit today. You know, if you surround yourself with yes men, then you're not going to get that. And if you surround yourself with people who are negative all the time, then they're going to be bringing you down even on the good days. So being able to assess your team and hire appropriately is so critical, and I don't think people really think about it in those terms. David: I agree completely. I also think that when people tend to give into those emotions, when they give into the overwhelm and they just basically withdraw and say, "no, I can't do it, I'm out." At that point, what are they leaving to themselves? I mean, they're really leaving the opposite. And there are people who will unintentionally feed into that. If you say, " I'm just overwhelmed. I don't feel like doing this." They'll say, "well, that's okay," you know, "Hey, you don't have to do it." And maybe that's true, and if it's something that's not good for you, you definitely shouldn't do it. But if it's something that you were committed to, that you really wanted to be able to accomplish, and you're having an off day and you make a decision like that, in a lot of cases, there's no going back on that. Jay: Yeah, you're exactly right. And so in that point you need somebody to say, "look, this is really important. We plan this out. You got this." You know, this is really important because if we can close this sale, then it's going to propel us forward. If you can surround yourself, at least have one person on your team like that, what a game changer.

To avoid feeling overwhelmed, consider which version of you is showing up. Some days we start out and the you that shows up is the focused, motivated, energized, action-taking you. And some days the you that shows up is the unfocused, unmotivated, lethargic, non-action-taking you. And when we recognize this in advance, we can do a couple of things. One is to say, okay, I don't really like the me that showed up today. You know, can I get myself in gear? Can I take some sort of action? Can I get myself motivated? Or will I at least take the next step? Will I take one small step in the direction of accomplishing what I've told myself and others that I intend to do? David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of how to avoid getting overwhelmed. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. It's great to be here, and this is such an important topic, especially for the entrepreneur. There are so many different things going on, and you know, oftentimes you have to be the front office, the back office, you have to fulfill the orders. I mean, there are just so many things, and keeping track of it can be very difficult. David: It can. And before we even really dive in too much, I just want to point out, first of all, we are not experts in the mental health field at all, right? So if you're struggling with actual mental health issues, this is not the podcast to listen to. But if you're in sales or marketing or business ownership, or just dealing with the day-to-day and occasionally feeling overwhelmed, that's what we'll be talking about. If you're feeling a little overwhelmed or stressed in business, that will be the discussion at hand today. And yeah, as you were saying, Jay, I mean, most of us have this situation at one point or another when you're in business, particularly when you're in sales, it's easy to feel overwhelmed on some days. It's like, oh, I don't feel like making the calls, or I'm struggling with this, or I'm struggling with that. And just that thought alone can stop some people in their tracks and cause 'em to not move forward. Jay: Yeah. I think first of all, it's important to tell people it's okay to feel overwhelmed. I mean, that's the reality for most people. But if that feeling becomes a stress paralysis, like I've experienced, like there are so many things going on. I don't know which one I should be focusing on, so I end up doing less instead of more. That can really be damaging to your business. David: It absolutely is. And what I find is that in a lot of cases, the things that cause us to feel overwhelmed is when we focus on all the different things that we have to do or all the different things that have to be done. And the fact there are too many things coming at us at once. And it's this habit of looking at everything as opposed to looking at the one thing or the next thing that I can do, which would actually allow us to move forward. And that I'm sure sounds very simplistic, and to some degree it is. But when we're struggling with that, a lot of it really becomes about our focus. How tightly can we narrow our focus so that we can actually concentrate on doing just one thing? What's the one, tiny, next thing I can do to move forward so I don't just give up? Jay: Yeah, and a lot of people I think, sometimes want to give up. But I think it's really important to do some work in advance here. If you don't have a list or a plan that talks about all of those things that need to be done and maybe prioritize them. If you don't have that done, then it's going to be very hard, like you said, to say, what is the one thing I should be doing right now?

When we think about how to handle indecisive prospects, we each have to recognize our own tolerance for pain. How long am I willing to chase? How long am I willing to wait? How much am I willing to sacrifice in terms of my own time and my own self-esteem? Right? And it's different at different stages of life. I spent so much time in the past just trying to accommodate people who, ultimately, it wouldn't have made sense to accommodate in the first place. And so for me, I've recognized that it's not always a good idea to just do that. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing indecisive prospects. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Thank you so much. This is the bane of the existence of so many salespeople because you think you have somebody, they see the benefits, but they just can't seem to make up their mind and you know that you can help them. You know that if they would just do this, they would be on their way to a better place, but you just can't get 'em over that finish line. It's so frustrating. David: Yeah, Jay, you know, I was really struggling to decide if we should do a podcast on this topic. It was weighing on me and I'm thinking, should we do it? Should we not do it? And I went back and forth and I spent eight months, and then I decided, yeah, maybe we'll do it. No. That approach it's brutal and we've all dealt with it. The term wishy-washy comes to mind where they just can't or won't make a decision and it's frustrating. But it's also kind of unnecessary because when you're dealing with someone who really is just not able to make a decision, it's almost a disqualifier for me. And it very often becomes a disqualifier for me. Because if we've laid out our best-case scenario for why it makes sense to move forward with something we're doing or not to move forward with something that we're doing. If we've done that and they're still sort of going back and forth and they don't know why or they can't put their finger on it, then they're probably not a good prospect. Because the problem with indecisive prospects is they go on to become indecisive clients, which means every time you want to sell something to them, they're going to have to think about it or go away and meditate on it or whatever it is they're going to have to do. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking for everybody. They're not getting the result of whatever it is that they were thinking about buying from you. You're spending a lot of time chasing them. They're spending a lot of time either being chased or avoiding being chased or dodging you. So for me, it can become a disqualifier pretty quickly. Jay: Yeah, and I think you've actually kind of zeroed in on a larger recognition, and that is, are we thinking about what type of customer this is going to be while we're talking about them initially? Because it may not just be that they're indecisive. We may through the conversation find out this client is going to be very hard to work with because they have a bazillion questions, or they seem so demanding or whatever. I think that kind of pre-assessment in the process can be very important. I also think with indecisive people, you know, you have to have your steps. Have I gone through every step of the process? Have I tried every skillset that I have in the book, and they're still waffling back and forth, then you're exactly right. Is this somebody that I want to be working with on a daily basis? Is it worth my time? And I think the answer is probably no. David: Yeah. And when you listen to what people tell you, if you're having some sort of interaction with someone who's considering working with you and you're actually paying attention to what they say,

When prospects don't respond, think in terms of what gets your attention, what gets you to respond? What makes you want to respond when someone else is reaching out to you? That can also be a great indicator of what you may want to be saying to the other person to try to get a response from them. Now, they might not respond to exactly the same things that you respond to. But it's possible they will, and it's not a bad place to start. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarlane and I will be discussing why people don't respond. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much David. This is something that frustrates me in the process when I've made a good faith effort, I'm expecting a response and I get crickets and it, you know, it's one of the hardest things to deal with in sales because you got to constantly be remotivation yourself and when you're not getting a response back, it's hard to stay motivated. David: It is. And it's hard to not take it personally sometimes. Even though it's very rarely personal. It's hardly ever personal. It's almost never personal, but it's still hard to get past that when it's happening. Jay: Yeah, I I totally agree with you. And again, I think you just kind of have to have that framework that you know it's going to happen. It's not personal and you just got to get through those. But I also think that you have to ask yourself some questions and reassess what is our communication system? I've found that there are people who will respond via text, but they're never going to respond via email or they will pick up their phone or they'll never pick up their phone. So you're kind of learning, and I keep track of these notes as I'm trying to reach out to people. And if I can get somebody via text, that's the way I'm going. I just will stop sending that person emails. So, I think learning along the way about each person and their preferred mode of contact is very important. David: Yeah, that is a huge one. such a great point. And I know we've talked about this in previous podcasts. We normally talk about it in terms of marketing and sales, but it applies just as much to telephone calls because they're marketing, they're sales as well. But we've talked in the past about the MVPs of Marketing. What is the marketing message we want to communicate? Which combination of marketing vehicles are we going to use to communicate the message? And who are the people or prospects that we need to reach? And when people are not responding? Well, the P part of it is covered. The people that we're talking to, the person who's not responding, that's the person that we're talking about. So if they're not responding, it is either the person themselves, they're just not going to do it. But if they are still potentially going to be engaged with us, then the reason they're not responding is usually either the message or the vehicle, like you pointed out. They're not going to respond to an email, but they very likely will respond to a text. Cool. That's easy. Okay. Now we'll communicate via text. They won't pick up the phone, they won't return voicemails, but they will respond to text. Great. Once you get something like that nailed down, you're back in the saddle again. as the old song went. But a lot of times people don't even think of that because your preferred method of communication might be different than mine. And if mine is to pick up the phone and call you again and again and again and again, which it is not. But if it were, and if your method of communication is text, then you're not going to respond to me. You're probably going to get annoyed at what I'm doing and I'm going to be annoyed at the fact that you're not responding to me. And it's a simple disconnect that can actually be add...

I've seen situations like that where people are making excuses instead of sales. Somebody had planned to sell something and was talking about it for a long time, and all the dominoes had to be lined up just right before they'd flick it, you know, flick one of them and get it going. And ultimately nothing happened. Sometimes we have a great idea, but then it's like, "oh, it seems like too much work" or "I don't want to do it," or "I'm scared," or whatever the deal is. And unfortunately, you're building bridges to nowhere when you do that. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing making excuses instead of sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. Such a pleasure to be here. And I'm excited about this topic. And I'm just going to be brutally honest upfront. I'm guilty of this very thing. As I've been involved in sales and sometimes numbers would drop, and the first thing I'm saying is, "well, it's this," or, "well, it's that." And the truth is it, might be. And so I think it's important to always go back and reassess what you are doing and have you changed something or has something changed in your system? David: Yeah, it's very easy to do. It's an easy trap to fall into. Because whoever really wants to say " it's my fault?" And yet, our behavior is one of the only things that we really, truly have control over to the extent that we can get control over it, right? We can't control a lot of outside factors, but we can largely control what we do and what we promise to do, and then try to connect the dots between those two things. Jay: Yeah. I remember I was in a training and they pointed out that so often when a mistake happens or say sales have a problem, we're looking for the person to blame. And so often it's not a person, it's a system. It's something that needs to be tweaked. But it's so easy to just pick somebody and say, you know, "you're the problem, you solve it." Maybe you're the frontline salesperson, and so you need to fix it or there are going to be consequences. And oftentimes I think that's the wrong approach. David: Yeah, I agree. And I think the reason that this topic even came up is I had an experience, fairly recently, where I was just sort of blindsided by someone's ability to blame every single outside factor rather than just the fact that they essentially weren't selling. And this is common in a lot of different businesses. It's common in a lot of different sales industries. A lot of times, "well, it's the leads." And if you ever saw Glengarry Glen Ross, "it's the leads." And I remember when I was first watching that movie, I was like, oh, that's brutal. You know, it's probably not the leads. And then you find out, in that particular movie, yeah, it was the leads, because they were giving them bad leads. That's really the exception, rather than the rule though. It's the leads, it's the market, it's the product, it's the supply chain. There have been a lot of really, potentially very good excuses, a lot of different things that people can blame for their lack of producing, but none of that empowers the salesperson. None of it empowers the person who is making those excuses to actually address the issues that potentially need to be addressed. In other words, if there's a problem with the leads, what can that person do to track down better leads? If it's the market, are there other markets they can approach? Or are there segments of the market that they could and should be approaching? If it's the product, are they representing the right product? Is there another product they should be selling? So for every excuse, there is normally something that the salesperson can do to address some aspect of the problem th...

To grow your client base proactively, you have to do more than just post stuff. It's about initiating conversations. And if you think of your social media content as your first contact, and you recognize that the goal of the first contact is to initiate a second contact (which means to get a response,) then your likelihood of success is going to be greatly increased. David: . Hi, and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing the topic of growing your client base proactively. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you for having me on. I'm super excited about today's topic. David: Yeah, it's great to have you here. Jay: Yeah, I, I know this is a big question for businesses. I've heard the phrase, if you're not growing, you're dying. And so growth is a constant thing that you have to be thinking about. How do you do that proactively? David: It's a great question because so often we get caught up in the day-to-day of what's going on. Particularly in the early stages of a business, when you don't have as much business as you need, it can be really scary. And what a lot of people tend to do is they just sort of default to whatever it is that they think is going to bring in business. And they lose sight of the fact that if they aren't proactive about it, you can really fall into bad patterns that can create problems and perpetuate a cycle where you're not generating the revenue that you need to grow and scale. Jay: Yeah. This is such important information because I think most people don't start a business because they know how to grow a business. They start a business because I have a great recipe and I'm going to put it in a food truck. Or I'm an attorney even, and I've learned the law or a dentist or a doctor. Those people are not trained or taught how to grow their business. They're taught how to do their craft. So this is outside of anything they've been taught. David: It's really funny because there was an electrician here earlier today at our house and he was taking care of some things and we were having exactly this conversation because he used to work for another electrical firm. He decided to start his own business and we started talking about what they don't teach you in electrical school, essentially, right? I know how to do electrical work, but do I know how to find customers? Do I know how to find the right customers? Do I know how to handle the billing and do collections and hire and fire, and do all the other things that become necessary when you have a business? It's a whole different set of skills. But you're right. And from the standpoint of our topic today, in terms of growing proactively, a lot of business owners really don't know how to go about that. They don't know how to do it, which is the reason we're having this conversation today. Jay: Yeah. And it can be so daunting. So where, where do you start? I mean, you know so many ideas. You know, you got social media, you've got all of these different tools available to you. Where do you begin? . David: Well, I think for a lot of people, if you want to take a strategic approach, you want to think in terms of the types of clients you actually want to have, the types of customers that you enjoy interacting with. By and large, these are going to be people who are pleasant to deal with. They're people who have money and aren't afraid to spend it. They're people who appreciate the value you bring to the table. And a lot of times we don't even think of that. Particularly in the early stages, if somebody is willing to pay us for what we do, we're like, "okay, great. I'll take it." I think that can really be a mistake,

If you think in terms of seasonality and counter-seasonal selling, does your business have a normal seasonality? Something that you know and can plan for? It's important to look at that. Look at your history. See if there are peaks and cycles that you might not even be aware of. If it's random, if it seems to go in peaks and cycles, try to figure out why that might be the case. If you look at certain types of clients that do business with you in certain times of year, that might be a good clue in terms of what kind of counter-seasonal business you might want to look at. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing counter-seasonal selling. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. You can have those booming months and then all of a sudden the bottom drops out and are you ready for it? Do you have a plan? And can you even survive it? And I think this is where a lot of companies fall down. And they don't survive it. Because they're not ready for the ebb and flow that comes with most businesses. David: Yeah. And you just raised a great point, which is the fact that there are some businesses where you just don't even know what that seasonality is likely to be. It just sort of comes and goes in waves, like nausea. You know, you're just not quite sure if it's going to be a good month, is it going to be a bad month? And there are a lot of businesses that are like that. Because if you are not structuring your business to be able to proactively attract the prospects and clients you need, it's bound to be feast and famine. And it's hard to even think in terms of counter-seasonal if you don't even know what your seasonal business is, right? If it's just sort of random and it's up and down and all over the place and you don't know what's causing it? As crazy as it sounds, there are a lot of businesses that are in exactly that situation. They get people who come in in a particular week or a particular month, "wow, we had a great month," and the next month they don't. And if they're not doing something proactive to ensure that that happens, that is very likely to continue to happen. Jay: Yeah, it's exactly right. And it's really hard, especially in your first couple of years, you know, some you can track. Like, I had a restaurant in a college town and we knew that, at the end of the college semester, we were going to be empty and we had to figure out how to survive that. But we could track that and we knew. But a lot of other companies, you may not know. It could be based on the stock market, it could be economically driven. There may not be any rhyme or reason for it. And so having plans and systems to watch for it, to pivot, we've talked a lot about pivoting in these podcasts. Having a pivot planned is so important. David: Yeah. It could be a pandemic, right? We've all gone through that. Like who saw that coming, right? And that did a lot of businesses in, some because they were literally shut. They were forced to close down. Some of them were able to make it through, or they were able to pivot and get things done, and others just went out of business. But in terms of this topic, I was originally thinking of it in terms of the situation you described where if you've got a seasonal restaurant and you know that the students aren't going to be there, and as a result, you're going to have some lean months over the summer, it's easier to plan for that. I was also thinking of it in terms of how, in my promotional products business, we did a lot of work with public television stations and they would have pledge drives three times a year. They would have a pretty large one in January, they would have a really large one in March,

When we talk about selling beyond features and benefits, we did sort of discuss the idea of trying to elicit some emotions from people. try to find out what they really want. Then we can start to focus more on emotions and experiences. What is the emotion you want to have them feel when they are taking advantage of this purchase? What is the experience you want them to have after they've purchased it? David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of selling beyond features and benefits. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. This is an important topic for me because I feel like so often if we just convince them that the features are perfect for them or the benefits are perfect for them, then we'll get the sale. When as so often, what we've talked about, it's more about relationships than it is features and benefits. David: Yeah, and we did touch on this topic a couple of weeks ago in the podcast, and I thought it was worth it to sort of revisit it, expand it a little more, because it's the type of thing that people sort of basically know, basically understand, but maybe haven't really implemented. So I'm hoping we can flesh this out a little better for people. And if you've got questions about anything we talk about, that's one of the reasons I love these discussions is you think of things that I would never have thought of and hopefully vice versa. And we're able to come up with strategies that are going to be helpful to people. So in a previous podcast we had discussed when we're looking to get beyond the idea of features and benefits, how so many salespeople have been trained on this over so many years or even so many decades. That's kind of all they know. And if you recognize that there is a world, there is a life beyond features and benefits, it really opens things up for you. It opens up your mind. It opens up your conversations, your dialogue, your interactions with prospects and clients. It just gives you a lot more that you can work with that can actually help to elicit a response from them. Find out what they're looking to do, get down to their actual core emotions in addition to just what's coming off the top of their head. Jay: Yeah, I think I told you it's probably been almost a year since we talked about it, but I went to a week-long sales training. These were like the premier sales trainers in the country. And they told us the whole week that we were selling light bulbs. And that was all we could sell. We could never rely on our knowledge of the real product that we sold. That way we would have to focus on the skillset behind selling and building relationships. And what was so funny is that people would start making up features and benefits of these imaginary light bulbs, because they had to have something like that. Because that's all they knew was selling features and benefits. And the whole week they're trying to teach you No, no, no. Build relationships. Like you said, there's an emotional component here. There's so much more than features and benefits. And I came away with an incredible understanding. I think some people came away just knowing how to sell light bulbs, to be honest with you. David: Right! Yeah. So then they all had to go into business selling light bulbs. It didn't help me sell anything else, but help me sell light bulbs. It really is kind of funny, the way our minds work sometimes. Because if you're in the product zone, if you're just thinking in terms of the actual physical product that you're selling, it's one dimension. But it's not always the most important dimension. Because there's that old expression that people don't want to buy a drill bit, right? You remember that one?

To maximize trade show revenue, switch the mindset from, "I'm here to meet people and give away stuff" to "I'm here to collect leads." This changes the entire dynamic. When she did that, she came back from the trade show, we were having a conversation and she said, "I've never had a show like that. I got so many leads. I have all these people I'm going to be following up with. You know, we had great conversations." And all it is, is a shift in the dynamic, a shift in the strategy and the overall approach. Going from "I'm here to be here and to see people and schmooze" to "I am here to collect leads, follow up on those leads and make sales." If you do nothing other than that, you're going to maximize your revenue from trade shows. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to maximize trade show revenue. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you for having me on, David. I hope everybody had a wonderful holiday and have big plans for the great new year, and I'm sure trade shows, for a lot of people that's part of their plan, so they should go in with some goals and some ways to make sure that they can maximize those benefits. David: Absolutely. In last week's podcast, we were talking about hitting the ground running in the new year. And today we will continue that trend with the idea of trade shows. In the promotional products industry, this is definitely trade show season, which is why I thought it would be a good idea to address this topic. This week, in fact, the PPAI Expo in Las Vegas is going on. From the standpoint of promotional product suppliers, this is a really big show because that's when they get to meet all the distributors. From a distributor's standpoint, they get to see all the new products that are coming out. They get to visit with the suppliers who decorate the products, and it's a really big show. I sound like Ed Sullivan, "it's a really big show!" Takes place in Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, and that's going on this week. And what we're talking about today, because most of the people who take advantage of our materials are promotional product distributors. They're walking the show this week. So what I'm talking about in terms of this topic though, is maximizing trade show revenue as an exhibitor. Because a lot of our clients who are walking the show this week as attendees, also will very often exhibit at other shows and try to sell their wares there. And so I wanted to touch on that topic a little bit this week. Jay: Yeah. And I'm really glad you are because I've been in both situations. I've walked a show trying to meet people, handing out cards. "Hey, this is what we do." And I've also been an exhibitor. There's nothing worse than being an exhibitor and watching people walk by your booth all day long. You know, you almost need to have the old carnival barker out front, trying to bring people in. And that can be frustrating, because you paid money and you're hoping to generate revenue. David: Absolutely, and I've done the same thing, but on both sides of the equation. Walk shows, and also been an exhibitor at shows. And one of the first shows that we ever exhibited at, we had never done it before. So when you're new at exhibiting at a trade show, you have no idea what you're getting into. You're going to have a booth. You're going to have some sort of backdrop, or you're just going to have nothing and a couple of people standing there. But I don't really want to get into all of that too deeply. I mean, whatever you decide in terms of the environment that you want to create there, obviously you want to create an environment that looks inviting, looks welcoming. You probably don't just want to have two metal chairs and stand ther...

To hit the ground running in 2023, we can start by taking responsibility. Whenever we blame outside factors for things that go wrong, we immediately forget that there are things we can evaluate in ourselves to say, okay, well even if this is the case, even if this was just a terrible prospect, are there things that I could have done better and differently in this circumstance to create a better outcome? And almost inevitably, the answer is going to be yes. But in order for that to happen, we have to consider it. And we have to think, is this actually what I want to do? And if you do that, you're just going to feel better about yourself. You're going to feel better about your situation. Because you're allowing yourself some level of control in the situation rather than simply delegating the failure to outside factors and assume you're a victim and there's nothing you can do about it. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to hit the ground running in the new year. Happy New Year, and welcome back Jay! Jay: Thank you, David. It's such a pleasure to be here. I think everybody has a desire, you know, at the beginning of the year, to say this year's going to be different, you know, we're going to make all these changes. It's going to be fantastic. But do they really have a way to translate that into action? I picture myself hitting the ground, you know, it's like the cartoon when they start to run, you know, their feet are moving, but they're not moving quite yet. I think a lot of us are in that place. How do we get from spinning to actually moving forward? David: Yeah, it's a great question. I know in the promotional products industry, we have trade shows that start at the beginning of the new year, the ASI Show in Orlando, the PPAI Expo in Las Vegas. And, There's one in Fort Worth as well, an ASI show in Fort Worth. I think it's actually in January as well this year. So we got three trade shows in the industry that are really designed to help people get up and running and get started. But as we look at today, you know, this first week of the new year, even aside from that, whether or not you're attending a trade show, chances are you're probably pretty reasonably fired up. Okay, here we go. It's another new year. What are we going to do? This is exciting. And if we think about the types of prospects that we want to interact with this year, the types of clients that we would like to attract, the types of customers that we might want to let go this year, and really focus on building our businesses as proactively as possible. Building our client lists as proactively as possible can really help to improve our quality of life in a dramatic way. Jay: Yeah. I love that. in the restaurant business, there's something called a theoretical food cost and an actual food cost. Theoretical is, what would things be like if you ran perfectly? If there was no waste, nothing. Everything was perfect. And then actual is where you're at. And the goal is to constantly be trying to close that gap. And so to me, I think about it in any business, what does your ideal look like? Your ideal client base, your ideal staff, your ideal sales? So if you can know what that is and then track a course to get to it, I think that's a great way to feel progress. Because that's what I tend to miss when I'm running a business is sometimes it's just a daily grind. And I don't feel like I made any progress today. And if you do that over and over again, it's hard to continue to press forward. David: It really is. And I think a lot of that goes to the fact that very often we're just tied up in the day. Whatever it is that's going on in the day, we're just facing whatever is happening to us mome...

Today, we'll discuss how to use the Big APE this week to plan the new year. Very often we say we're going to prioritize time with our family and our loved ones. And we do this every year, January 1st, going to spend more time with the people we care about, the people we love. And then by March, it's back to life as usual, right? So if we decide what we're going to prioritize, who we're going to prioritize, and again, the flip side, what am I going to deprioritize? Who am I no longer going to prioritize in terms of allocating time? Those things as well allow you to live a far more proactive life. And it allows you to really start living the kind of life that you want to engage in. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing using the Big APE this week to prepare for the new year. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Well, I'm so glad to be here. David. I have to tell you, after Christmas my number one tendency is just to kind of want to detox, you know, because of all the shopping and everything else. But I know it's also, because there's not a lot going on business wise. It's probably a great time to kind of start thinking about the next year. David: Yeah, and I think detoxing is also a really good part of that. It's nice to be able to use this time, it's sort of the eye of the hurricane, a little break in the action before the new year starts and everything gets rolling again. It's just a great time to be able to do that, to be able to take a breath. Take a moment. Sort of think through how things went, what we liked, and what we didn't like about the past year and what we want to do better and differently in the coming year. And for me, I think it's just a great time for planning, for making notes, and really considering the things that we'd like to accomplish. Because, there's something magical about a new year where everybody wants to start fresh and turn the page. I mean, there's no reason you couldn't do that any day or every week. Reminds me of the expression, "today is the first day of the rest of your life." People hear that and they go, "yeah, that's right." And then we never do anything about it. But boy, January 1st rolls around and everybody wants to do things. We've got different resolutions, and I'm going to do this better. I'm going to do that better. Lots of people join gyms and they go for two weeks. Then that's the end of it, right? So there is this tendency to get really excited and really focused about a new year, and then perhaps let it fall away. So if we use this week to just really think through, okay, what do I really want? What am I trying to get out of my life, my business, you know, my relationships? What is it that I'm looking to accomplish? It's just a nice sort of quiet time to consider those sort of things. Jay: Yeah, and I think, you gave the example of the gyms. My wife goes to the gym all the time and she can't stand January and into February because she can't find an open machine to use, because everybody has set this new goal and it's going to last at most six weeks and then everybody returns. I think that that's kind of a microcosm of our goal setting for the new year and for resolution. So it has to be important too, as you're being mindful to be specific I think, but also to be reasonable with yourself, achievable, right? And trackable are all things that I think would probably be important in this process. David: Absolutely. There's another thing that I tend to think of, just in terms of planning and thinking things through. I refer to it as The Big Ape, A.P.E., the Big Ape. And it stands for activities, priorities, and expectations.