Touch Podcast: Conversations of Spirit and Body

Touch Podcast Episode 16: Dear God, Make Me a Real Boy with Lianne Simon and Dr. Megan DeFranza Podcast is hosted by Ryan Clark and Nate Novero and on this episode, they speak to their guests Lianne Simon and Dr. Megan DeFranza genitals and the Bible. Does size matter? It depends on what meaning we’ve ascribed to them. We love our listeners! Did you know you can become a monthly supporter of Touch Podcast: Conversations of Spirit and Body? Check out our new page at www.patreon.com/touchpodcast. Lianne Simon tells the first part of her story of being raised as a boy, not going through puberty, and not finding out just how different her body was until living in a boys dorm her freshman year of college. Lianne is the author of a number of young adult novels including Confessions of a Teenage Hermaphrodite, A Proper Young Lady, and Outsider. She is a tireless advocate for intersex and faith has a passion for helping Christians think and believe beyond the binary.

Touch Conversations of Spirit and Body is hosted by Ryan Clark and Nate Novero. Today we speak with Dr. Megan DeFranza on the topic of Intersex and the Bible. How do we think theologically about Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:12, “For there are eunuchs who were born that way?” Dr. Megan DeFranza will unpack a reality few Christians are willing to acknowledge: There are as many people who are intersex as there are red-heads in the world. As you will hear, Megan grew up conservative Evangelical and leading into her doctoral research began considering a biological reality that didn’t match-up with a traditional view that God had created (only) male and female. Megan DeFranza is a Christian theologian, author, speaker, and facilitator of challenging conversations, especially around Christianity, sex, gender, and sexuality. She is Producing a documentary "Stories of Intersex and Faith" with Lianne Simon and Paul Van Ness and serves as a Research Associate at the Center for Mind and Culture in Boston and as a Visiting Researcher, Boston University School of Theology. She is best known for her book: "Sex Difference in Christian Theology: Male, Female, and Intersex in the Image of God," (Eerdmans, 2015) Music contributors to this episode include Christian singer/songwriter and worship leader Scott Willis of Nashville, TN.

Touch Podcast is hosted by Ryan Clark and Nathan Novero. Episode 14 continues the conversation with best-selling author Josh Harris and documentary film-maker Jessica Van Der Wyngaard. Ultimately, Josh wanted to understand how the ideas of his book had affected people and this starts with Josh listening and the leadership of strong single women Jessica. In this show, we’ll hear about how Josh dropped out of the project and what brought him back. We’ll hear about how a 19/20-year-old gets a book published and a bit of the evangelical machine that swarmed to his message and the role the homeschool movement in launching book and career. The best story includes jeopardy and Aussie filmmaker Jessica Van Der Wyngaard finds that working with Josh Harris, author of a number of books including “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” For Josh, this film isn’t theoretical or academic. In this episode, Josh speaks to the painful and difficult task of coming to terms with the fact that what he started teaching 20 years ago and has built a career on, is regrettably flawed. Special contributors to this podcast include Ellen Goebel of Worldwide Groove Corporation and their very sexy song, "Kiss Me Slow" that features Kareem Bennett

Touch Podcast Episode 13 is hosted by Ryan Clark and Nathan Novero. We’ll be “Kissing Something Goodbye” with Joshua Harris And Jesica Van Der WynGaard in this two-part series where we talk about the upcoming documentary titled, “I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye” that chronicles the journey of best-selling Christian author Josh Harris and his breakout book, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye,” where at age 20, he invited young people to stop dating, stop physical contact and court their future mate, even saving the first kiss for the wedding day. Aussie documentary filmmaker Jesica Van Der WynGaard talks about how she directs and produces a film where Josh reconsiders some of the things he wrote 20 years ago. Jesica talks about what its like to be a single 30-something Christian in light of the book’s expectations. Josh talks about going to seminary and being confronted about his book’s teachings by his new peers. The beautiful music on episode 13 was written, composed and produced by Carter Harrell, a Nashville artist. His track “Broken Love” can be heard in its entirety at the end of this episode.

Touch Podcast is hosted by Ryan Clark and Nathan Novero. Episode 12 is sponsored by Next Good Consulting and features writer, podcaster and co-creator of She is Called, Carla Ewert. In this episode, Ryan speaks Carla Ewert about growing up a preacher’s kid and what that meant for purity, patriarchy, complementarianism and how purity culture interacts with survivors of abuse. Ryan and Carla also discuss her recent article in Relevant Magazine where she offers a challenge to best selling purity author Joshua Harris’s Ted X talk as an example of a recurring problem of centering a male’s voice on an issue that disproportionately negatively impacted women.

Touch Episode 11 is hosted by Ryan Clark and Nathan Novero. On this show Ryan speaks with Dr. Angela Yarber of the Holy Women Icons Project about art, feminist theology, queering the Bible and the mis-sexualization of Salome and a possible lesbian encounter in Song of Songs. Dr Yarber lives in Hawaii and is is a preacher, an activist, author, dancer, painter, as well as running her own nonprofit. Integrating art and theology most of her life, Ryan hears from Dr. Yarber about the need for religious iconography that’s less brooding and much less male and why it’s vital that we understand systems of oppression and work toward a more just religious community.

Episode 10: Lighting Fires Of Holy Horniness features co-hosts Ryan Clark and Nate Novero and is part-two of episode 9 with guest Shannon Ethridge an evangelical women’s sexuality leader. This episode explores the impact of divorce on Christians and the way some find release from sexual shame and anxiety created when sexuality is conflated as a salvation issue. Can Christian women be sexually confident and how should men respond?

On Touch Podcast Episode 9, hosts Ryan Clark and Nate Novero speak with bestselling author and women's sexuality expert Shannon Ethridge. This first of two episodes jumps in with Shannon's story: a 20 year-old mortician who then ends up leading teen purity Bible studies becomes an author of 22 books 25 years later. From embalming to masturbation, non-missionary sex positions and divorce, Shannon shares how her teachings in her early days as an abstinence only educator have evolved and grown along with her following among married Christian women in America.

Sponsored by Next Good Consulting, Episode 8 explores the topic visual erotica (porn) and virginity. Before we finish up our conversation with Dr. Tin Shermer-Sellers from episode 7, we listen to one of the stories we recorded back in the fall in Nashville. Lauren, a divinity school student at Vanderbilt, talks about how she viewed sex and virginity growing up as a preacher’s kid. Nate is overcome with emotion when he is surprised by Dr. Seller’s response to Ryan’s question about people of faith making and consuming erotica. Dr. Sellers gives some guidelines about explicit sexual content and offers a touching word of encouragement to Nate.

Joins hosts Ryan Clark and Nate Novero as they did into the sources of our sexual shame with Dr. Tina Schermer-Sellers, Therapist, sexologist, author, and professor in the School of Psychology, Family and Community graduate program at Seattle Pacific University. Shame thrives in silence. What is the difference between guilt and shame? We have to deal with our own shame before we can do it differently with our own kids. Dr. Schermer-Sellers speaks with Nate and Ryan about how to sort out what is “normal” and start figuring out how to have amazing sex.

Joins hosts Ryan Clark and Nate Novero as they discuss the book Sex, Shame and the Conservative Church. Therapist, sexologist, and author, Dr. Tina Schermer-Sellers, didn’t set out to take on the church’s teaching on sex, but when she continued to encounter students who were traumatized by deep sexual shame without having been physically sexually abused, Dr. Tina Schermer-Sellers had to get down to the bottom of it. Was there a time when our faith tradition taught and practice a sex positive ethic? The answer is yes. Hear Dr. Schermer-Sellers discuss with Nate and Ryan about this answer as well as the impact of the merging of church and state in the 1980’s where religious fear fed the political narrative and planted the seeds of the purity movement.

Brought to you by Next Good Consulting, Episode 5 continues our previous conversation with Shawn Warner-Garcia who talks about the impact of how religious speak becomes part of the problems of violations of consent. We also hear from Lyndsey Godwin, the Assistant Director of the Carpenter Program in Religion, Gender, and Sexuality at Vanderbilt Divinity School, about the lasting impact of sexual purity programs even on young adults attending seminary today. Why do Christian congregations experience the same level of abuse as the general public? Shawn Warner-Garcia talks about her research and finding that 40% of Baptists experience forced sexual activity at some point in their life. She talks about the link between abuse and our use of language. And Nate and Shawn discuss some of the political issues around sex and how they keep us from having important conversations at church. Surprising, 38% of Baptists indicated that they expressed a public sexual identity that was not consistent with their public sexual expression. Lyndsey Godwin of Assistant Director of the Carpenter Program in Religion, Gender, and Sexuality at Vanderbilt Divinity School speaks from her experience in help students overcome shame-based sexuality programs while working with seminary students at Vanderbilt. Nate is surprised to find that the Song of Solomon’s erotic moments are not among married persons.

When host Nate Novero left his Southern Baptist faith, his understanding of faith and church basically froze in time. Now that Nate is reengaging with his Christian heritage, he’s got a lot of catching up to do. The first of two podcasts, Episode 4 features Shawn catching up Nate on the national debate among church folk about what to do about sexual practice in light of Supreme Court decision on same sex marriage. They speak specifically about Southern Baptists, the Nashville Statement, and how all religious communities have to keep negotiating their personal ethics with one foot in their religious tradition and another in there modern context.

We continue our roundtable discussion with members and staff of Glendale Baptist Church Including co-Pastor Amy Mears who talks about the benefits of 10 years of sex-positive education at Glendale Baptist. We also hear from co-Pastor April Baker who offers a hopeful image of God as well as students from Vanderbilt Divinity School. We discuss condoms, teen sex, consent and whether faith leaders should still teach celibacy before marriage. “Sex is an adult activity and if you’re going to do it, do it like adults and not in a car or on the ground or where someone’s mother might walk in!” Pastor Amy Listeners will also hear more about Ryan and Nate’s stories including how Nate is relearning how to understand his faith.

What happens when religious people talk (and don’t) talk about sex? Episode 2 continues with Jennifer Knapp on the topic of marketing virginity among young women and moves into the difficulty of talking about sex in faith communities. Dr. Amy Mears, pastor of Glendale Baptist Church joins this conversation along with staff congregants about how even progressive congregations struggle to create space for talking about sexual practice.