Skeptiko – Science at the Tipping Point

Dr. Mariana Caplan think yoga is just what psychology and psychotherapy needs. photo by: Skeptiko Alex Tsakiris: Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. My guest today is Mariana Caplan, who has a new book, Yoga & Psyche. Mariana, welcome. Thanks so much for joining me. Mariana Caplan: It’s a pleasure to be here, I’m looking forward to it. Alex Tsakiris: I am too, I was so excited to read this book. I am such a yogi and I have been such a yogi for so long, and I think that anyone who’s ever stepped on the mat and had a sense that more is going on than just these poses. Mariana Caplan: Great, so my whole adult life has been spent studying, practicing and teaching in these parallel traditions, though I really do prioritize the role of student, when we’re talking about something as vast as yoga or as deep as the psyche, which is connected to the world of psychology. Alex Tsakiris: …make the case for yoga and psychology. What’s the science? What’s the most compelling science that you cite in the book that you think makes the case? Mariana Caplan: So, with two doctoral students several years ago, I worked to survey all of the academic research to date at that time. Not only in yoga and psychology, but yoga and neuroscience, yoga and trauma, trauma and psychology, mindfulness and psychology and so forth. And we surveyed over 200 published academic articles and we summarized it for people. Essentially there’s ample scientific documentation. But yoga, even without the psychology, this most basic practice of physical postures for a period of time, minus all the extra goodies that I think are so enhancing, addresses and has proven to be beneficial for, just name a handful; anxiety and depression, eating disorders, suicide prevention, autoimmune disorders, wellbeing, attention deficit disorders, there’s a huge list. All the sciences summarized in a people friendly way in the book. But basically, the science has shown yoga’s benefits on most major categories in the DSM, which is the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, it is the most mainstream and useful, in many ways, text to survey all the psychological disorders known in the western world. (later in the interview) Alex Tsakiris: …and until we’re real about this and real about the causes of why psychology has gone down this pharmacological model and has pushed it, even when the data comes back and says, “Hey, depression, mild depression, this multi-billion-dollar industry, it is not more effective than placebo, but we still sell billions of dollars of this.” So, I love that you say, “Maybe we’ll just grow out of this and keep going guys” but, maybe not, these guys have a strong financial interest in keeping things the way they are. So, what are the changes that you’ve seen in your career and how can we expedite it? Don’t we need to call these people out?  Mariana Caplan: I agree with everything you said. When we talk about calling these people out, it brings an image of  amorphic “them”, and for me, I don’t know how to do that. So, I do what I do know how to do, which is… Alex Tsakiris: I know who they are because I talk to them all the time. One of the things I try to do is invite them on this show and I ...

Chris Knowles spots pop culture deception in phony celebrities and the Catholic church. photo by: Skeptiko Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome the very excellent host of The Secret Sun blog and the author of such books as, Our Gods Wear Spandex, The Secret History of Rock ‘n’ Roll and The Complete X-Files. If you’re watching this video you can see all of those up on your screen. Chris Knowles is here. Chris, welcome back. Thanks so much for joining me. Chris Knowles: Great to be back, really looking forward to this. (later in the interview) Chris Knowles: …What people really need to understand is that while all this was going on and it’s interesting too because you have Catholic imagery with a number of very prominent celebrities, female celebrities dressed as scarlet women. One of the best examples of this is the rapper Nikki Minaj, who said that she was dressed as the devil and she was wearing this long flowing red dress, with what’s called a waterfall trail, but… Alex Tsakiris: And didn’t you say there was another one where it’s something, an ode to the abyss?  So, it’s not just that they’re doing the Easter play and showing the devil. They are venerating and celebrating… Chris Knowles: Yes, I believe that was the Ariana Grande dress which was of The Last Judgement, the apocalyptic symbolism is very strong here. So, what people really need to understand is, that image that you’re looking at right now on screen, which is that twelve-foot alien demon and it’s not like I’m just using it [unclear 00:11:34] here, that’s what it actually is. That’s what’s it’s presented as, that’s what the artist who created it explains it as and look at that image. If that’s isn’t like something out of Hieronymus Bosch’s worst nightmares, I don’t know what is. It’s a twelve-foot demon, with the three heads similar to the Janus heads or the Cerberus heads or the Hecate Triple Goddess kind of feeling there. I think… Alex Tsakiris: But, we’ve got to switch back to the cultural bracketing on this one too, right? Because as soon as you say that, someone’s jumping in saying, “You fool! It’s just art. People in the art world do all sorts of crazy stuff”, and you pull them back and go, “Well no, let’s go back and look at the intent of the artist, what they said they were trying to communicate. Let’s look at it from the spiritual dimension and analyze whether there’s any evidence for that to be true and then let’s look at the people who have decided that this should be presented in this way and what are their beliefs?” I think, that it’s so difficult to switch people over, because that one bracket is so strong and is so dominant. It is the ‘Good Morning America’ bracket and it is so comfortable because we have been entrained, if you will, to be comfortable with that bracket. So, we just get into it like a warm bath, as Marshall McLuhan said… (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for some of Chris’s website Read Excerpts:

Phil Watt seeks a deeper spiritual truth that embraces life, but doesn’t ignore conspiracy culture. photo by: Skeptiko Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome Phillip J. Watt to Skeptiko. Phil is a fellow podcaster — which is always fun for me — he’s also quite a spiritual seeker, a former social worker, an out-of-body traveler, a lucid dreamer, a bunch of other stuff and you can add to that list an author of a very cool new book titled, The Simulation. (later in the interview) Again, this gets to this topic that I, kind of, just touch on sometimes and it might be fun to stretch it out into a little bit of a longer discussion, and the phrase I always put on it is backdoor-materialism. So, it’s like, we’re out there preaching post-materialism, “Hey, materialism doesn’t work, and consciousness is the underlying fundamental nature of everything and everything arises out of consciousness,” and then as soon as we get any kind of momentum, we want to go back and go, “And here’s how we can measure it, control it, make it better, optimize it.” It’s like, wait a minute, in what way would that mean anything to use empirical means to study the efficacy of…? I mean, there’s an underlying contradiction there that begins with the assumption that driving this back into the material world, and measure it in some way, is somehow good, useful, important for some goal that we have ill-defined and we really think we’ve moved past. Do you get where I’m at all coming from, with the backdoor-materialism?   Phillip Watt: Yeah, but I would say that the material world isn’t the material world, it’s an expression of reality and when we look at our scientific investigation into that expression of reality, if we look through a different lens, we’re going to see it differently, we’re going to have different results. But we shouldn’t be looking at it as, “Well, science is only the study of matter.” Science isn’t the study of matter, science is the organic investigation of humanity into reality. So, how that unfolds, how we measure and actually interact with the so-called material world, which is very much connected to the quantum physical world, it’s connected to the observer and the collapse of the wave function into a particle experience, all the way the co-created process happens, as well as things that we don’t know about. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for some of Phil’s work Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris: I hear you and I’m going to bring you back to a point where we were at in our prior discussion that, to me, gets at this question in a beautiful way and I was telling you about my story with my friend and excellent host of the terrific show, Buddha at the Gas Pump, that I always reference, because it’s an incredible show with so many incredibly spiritually, awakening people as Rick calls them. And one of them is Amma, known as the hugging saint,

Dr. Michael Shermer isn’t swayed by near death experience science, but has he read the literature? photo by: Skeptiko Today we welcome Dr. Michael Shermer back to Skeptiko. Dr. Shermer is a bestselling author and creator of Skeptic Magazine. His latest book on consciousness and the afterlife is, Heavens on Earth: Alex Tsakiris: A couple of years ago I interviewed Jan Holden from the University of North Texas, who, along with Dr. Bruce Greyson from the University of Virginia, two of the most prominent names in near-death experience research, they compiled the book, “The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences,” mainly for people in the medical community, so that when they encounter someone who comes up out of a cardiac arrest and says, “Hey, I had this incredible experience,” they can be, at least, familiar with what they tell them. At the time they published this book Michael, in 2009, they had over a hundred peer-reviewed papers they included in their book. By now, there’s over 200 peer-reviewed papers. I don’t see any of that in your book. Michael Shermer: I think it’s important to make it… Well, look, I don’t have to cite everybody that’s ever written on the subject. Alex Tsakiris: But you don’t cite any of them. Michael Shermer: Yes, I do, oh yes, I do. Alex Tsakiris: Pim van Lommel, Sam Parnia, who else? Michael Shermer: Yeah, yeah. Alex Tsakiris: You misrepresented both of them, but you at least cited them. Michael Shermer: But anyway, let’s back up for a second and… Alex Tsakiris: And I’d have to say, Eben Alexander, I want to talk about him, but technically he’s not a near-death experience researcher, he’s a Harvard neurosurgeon who had a near-death experience and wrote a book about it, right? Michael Shermer: That’s right, but he knows a lot about it, he knows as much as you do, as much as I do, because he’s… Alex Tsakiris: But he hasn’t published peer-reviewed papers on looking at the science. Michael Shermer: A peer-reviewed paper thing, that’s a red herring. I’m not denying that people have real experiences. You’re treating this as if the experiences represent some other dimension, a heaven, a place to go, and that is not at all what these peer-reviewed papers indicate. All they say is that the people that have the experiences, have very real experiences, which I agree. The experiences these people have are very real. The question is, is do they represent just neural activity or neural activity and something else, and I claim that none of the research I’ve read, none of the stories, none of the papers are evidence of an afterlife. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for Dr. Michael Shermer’s website Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris:...

Dr. Bernardo Kastrup on the growing acceptance of his controversial theories of consciousness. photo by: Skeptiko Today we welcome Dr. Bernardo Kastrup back to Skeptiko. Bernardo is the author of several books on consciousness and has created quite a stir with his recent articles in Scientific American: Alex Tsakiris: These people will be recognized by people in my community as skeptics or as materialists, but these people are just generally regarded as scientists, as mainstream scientists. We’re talking about Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Neil deGrasse Tyson. Neil deGrasse Tyson, whether we like it or not, is the face of science for many, many, many Americans, so let’s see what mainstream science has to say about consciousness. Here we go, I’m going to play this clip. You can see it there, I’m going to play it. Richard Dawkins: But you can say something about the question which you really would wish to know the answer to, and for me it would be, what’s consciousness, because that’s totally baffling. Neil de Grasse Tyson: Richard, you know what I think, not that you ask, but what I think on this is, consciousness has, kind of, baffled us for a while and evidence that we haven’t a clue about what consciousness is, is drawn from the fact of, how many books are published on the topic. We’re not really continuing to publish books, not really, on Newtonian physics, it’s done. So, the fact that people keep publishing books on consciousness is the evidence we don’t know anything about, because if we knew all about it, you wouldn’t have to keep publishing. So, what I wonder, what I wonder Richard is, whether there really is no such thing as consciousness at all and that there’s some other understanding of the functioning of the human brain that renders that question obsolete. Bill Nye: To that I’ve got to say like, oh wow! Alex Tsakiris: I’m laughing, but what is so funny about that. Bernardo Kastrup: The idea that maybe consciousness is not there is probably the weirdest, stupidest idea every conceived by human thought. I mean, where does thought take place? It takes place in consciousness. So, here we have consciousness, speculating about the possibility that consciousness does not exist and it may not be there. I mean, the very thought is an in your face contradiction and the fact that something like this is not only seriously entertained, but even verbalized with a public with the public exposure of the gentleman we just saw, is a worrying sign of cultural sickness, a very serious one. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for Dr. Bernardo Kastrup’s website Read Excerpts:   Alex Tsakiris: The other thing that got me, and I hope you just comment on, because you are a philosopher and an expert in logic and in your books you do a wonderful job of deconstructing the silliness down to a level that is extremely comprehensive and well thou...

Dr. Dean Radin’s interest in psi phenomena is leading him to scientifically investigate magical practices. photo by: Skeptiko Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome Dr. Dean Radin back to Skeptiko. Dean is, of course, Chief Scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences, as well as a bestselling, award-winning author.  Dean is truly a scientist, as most of you know, because most of you are familiar with his work, and I have a little photo here of the video of him actually in a lab, with a very, very interesting experiment that I think is just fundamental to how we understand consciousness and science, but it’s not even an experiment we’re going to talk about today, because today we’re going to talk about Dean’s new book, Real Magic: Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science and a Guide to the Secret Power of the Universe. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for Dr. Dean Radin’s website Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris: So, the book is out April 10th of 2018, and it’s titled, Real Magic: Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science and a Guide to the Secret Power of the Universe. A title only an agent or a publicist or a publisher could really come up with, right? Dr. Dean Radin: You got it. Alex Tsakiris: Well, it’s awesome to have you back and to reconnect with you. You know, if we could, I obviously want to talk about the book a lot, but I really wanted to start with another subject, and a subject that, I don’t know, you’re a pretty humble guy, so I don’t know how you’re going to feel about this, but it’s really the topic of legacy. I’m sure you’ve thought about this a little bit. I remember way back, to when I interviewed you, many, many years ago when I was starting this show, and I wrote a book a couple of years ago on consciousness and the first chapter of the book opens with this little vignette of me talking to you and I’m asking you about these scientists, two pretty respected scientists, Ray Hyman, from the University of Oregon and Steve Novella, from Yale, Neurology. These guys are laughing at you, they’re actually laughing at Dean Radin and the kind of work that he does and the kind of research that he does, and I just can’t help but think how interesting this history is going to look. Because, when we write this history, there’s no way you’re not right in the middle of it, and if this paradigm change that is happening, we can’t even say it’s about to happen, it’s happening, I mean the materialistic, dopey, mind equals brain, there is no consciousness, I mean that science is gone or is leaving the station for all, except the very diehards. What’s it going to look like Dean? How do you think you are going to be viewed in the longer lens of science history? Dr. Dean Radin: It’s been said of Sibelius, I think actually Sibelius, the composer said this, that he was severely criticized during his musical care...

Dr. Rupert Sheldrake finds scientific support for benefits of spiritual practices. photo by: Skeptiko Alex Tsakiris: Today I’m so happy to welcome back Dr. Rupert Sheldrake to Skeptiko. Dr. Sheldrake who has, not only appeared on Skeptiko several times over the years, but through his encouragement and guidance was really instrumental in the creation of this show, is truly one of my favorite guests to have on. So Rupert, welcome back. So good to talk to you again. Dr. Rupert Sheldrake: Glad to be with you again Alex. Alex Tsakiris: The reason for this visit today is this new book you’ve written, Science and Spiritual Practices: Transformative Experiences and Their Effects on Our Bodies, Brains and Health. Quite a new book, and I was saying, when we were chatting about it just a minute ago, it is great to see you back out there, just really hitting the trail with this book, doing a lot of appearances. It looks like you’re doing workshops and also lectures. So, how is all of that going for you? Dr. Rupert Sheldrake: Well, it’s going very well. So far, this book is only out in Britain, it’s not coming out in the US until Autumn of 2018, but most of this activity is in Britain at the moment, so I don’t have to travel very far, but there’s a huge amount of interest in this and I’m really excited about all of the themes in this book. Alex Tsakiris: There is a lot of interest. I started watching your interview with Russell Brand and I thought that was fascinating on a number of levels, how did that go? Dr. Rupert Sheldrake: Well, Russell Brand is an extremely intelligent person. Here in Britain he’s very, very well-known as a comedian and as a, sort of, public intellectual. He wouldn’t like to be called that probably, but he’s very curious. He’s on a, kind of, spiritual quest himself after years of drug addiction, heroin addiction and alcohol addiction, sex addiction etc. He did a 12-step program which changed his life. He’s got a new book out himself called, Recovery, which is about recovering from addictions and he’s on a, kind of, spiritual mission at the moment. He was curious and interested about this new book of mine and we get on extremely well. We had a really good conversation. He reaches a huge audience. Alex Tsakiris: He does reach a huge audience and the other thing that I thought was interesting about the pairing and the conversation, we’ll try and link to it so everyone can see it, because it’s really a great conversation, but I think he’s this transitional, transformational kind of figure, in a lot of ways, in that pairing him with you, he’s calling bullshit on all the old atheistic, materialistic nonsense that you’ve called bullshit on for so long, but he’s doing it in a different way, coming at it from a different angle, and he’s pulling in a lot of different people. So, I think there’s an interesting synergy with that message, even though you’re coming at it from a lot of different ways. Dr. Rupert Sheldrake: Yes, I think so. He’s become very disillusioned with the, kind of, consumerist society, and his message about addiction is not, are you an addict or not, but where are you on the addiction spectrum? Is it just compulsive Facebook messaging etc? He sees consumerism, all these as forms of addiction. So,

Meryl Klemow and Beau Hufford  join me in studio to talk about their new podcast, Campfire Sht Show. photo by: Skeptiko (Meryl Klemow and Beau Hufford are heard cutting it up off-mic)… That’s Meryl and Beau from the Campfire Shit Show and you’ll hear a lot more about them, and you may come to understand what that show is all about and maybe even why I decided to do a kind of wacky show on conspiracies. I think it came out great, I think these people are extremely talented and are on the edge of where podcasting is really going. They do such a great job and it was so fun having them here in the studio for a little while to talk with me. It really doesn’t require a lot of introduction, let’s get right onto the show. Alex Tsakiris:  Today I have a special, if you will, episode of Skeptiko, special for me at least, because Meryl and Beau from the Campfire Shit Show podcast are actually joining me in my little home studio. So, you guys, welcome. Thanks so much for being here. Meryl: Thank you. Beau: We’re so excited to be here. Meryl: We are trapped in the dungeon if anyone is wondering. Alex Tsakiris:  If you never hear from Meryl and Beau again… Meryl: Just leave us here, it’s really nice. So, we’ll just stay and serve me food like once a week or something, we’re fine. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for Campfire Sht Show Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris:  It’s great to have you here. So, Meryl, I met you online because I have this whacky idea of doing this conspiracy show, kind of thing, and it’s a new project and I ran across you and it just was so fun because you were such a cool person, and you are into conspiracies, like I am, which was cool. You then introduced me to this awesome podcast that you do with Beau here, and you guys have such a great dynamic and I really enjoyed it and I thought this might be fun to talk about, both from the conspiratorial angle, which we both are interested in and I’m interesting in, and I’m always trying to pull Skeptiko listeners in, because I say, this is essentially, one way or another, it’s the heart of what Skeptiko is about, because we run into these conspiracies whether we want to or not. I’ve certainly run into them, just trying to follow the trail of consciousness science. So, with that, I thought I’d turn it over to you guys to do a little bit of introduction. Tell us more about yourself, tell folks about the Campfire Shit Show. Beau: Go for it. Meryl: Okay, I’ll start. I’m Meryl. I’m one half of Campfire Shit Show and I worked for 11 years in the music industry… Oh nice [unclear 00:02:57]. Alex Tsakiris:  That wasn’t on screen. See, they’re only seeing you. Meryl: Oh yeah, exactly, okay yeah. I just say, [unclear 00:03:06], I have a sickness where I just [unclear 00:03:08] with their body parts. I would say I got into the, kind of, conspiratorial realm, or whatever realm, a few years ago. I actually had a weird thing, that we can talk about,

Dr. Penny Sartori is a front line near-death experience researcher. Her conclusion — it’s about light and love… well mostly. photo by: Skeptiko I have an interview coming up in a minute with the very excellent Dr. Penny Sartori, about her new book, The Transformative Power of Near-Death Experiences. I’ve covered near-death experiences a lot and I seem to have a little bit of a different take on it than others who cover the field. It’s especially fun to talk to such an accomplished scientific researcher as Dr. Penn Sartori, but, I wanted to contrast that with a little movie clip, maybe this one… (Movie clip from Ted2… Nurse calls out )  Code Blue – Room 134. There’s nothing quite like Seth MacFarlane in a teddy bear costume, I never could bring myself to watch those Ted movies, but it’s an interesting cultural overlay on this topic of near-death experience, because one of the questions is, to what extent is this over-the-top fear of death we have a product of our medical establishment and our media? And to what extent does near-death experience science relieve that fear of death, and lessen the grief associated with death? As we’ve talked about before research suggests, it clearly does… in fact, it seems to be overwhelmingly better than any other treatment we know of… but to what extent is medicine responsible for perpetuating [fueling fear of death as opposed to reflecting what we already feel, believe and have been culturally instilled with? So, that’s one of the topics we talk about today with Dr. Sartori. We also talk about this “light and love” thing, which I think is so interesting and is the focus of her latest book. Of course, the “light and love” NDE coincides with the data. If you look at Dr. Jeff Long, he’s collected the data and it’s certainly about light and love 80% to 90% of the time. But, what about those other times? What about the hellish near-death experiences? What about the black void that some people face and fear so greatly? So, those a couple of things we talk about. We also talk about the connection between near-death experience and other transformative experiences. Very, very interesting stuff from just a terrific guest, who really does have a great new book. I hope you check out The Transformative Power of Neath-Death Experiences. My interview with Dr. Penny Sartori is coming up next on Skeptiko. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for Dr. Penny Sartori’s website Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome NDE researcher and author Dr. Penny Sartori to Skeptiko. Dr. Sartori has, along with Kelly Walsh, who you’ll hear about in a minute, they have written a new book, titled, here it is if you’re watching this video, The Transformative Power of Near-Death Experiences: How the Messages of NDEs Can Positively I...

Dr./Colonel John Alexander has seen a lot that can’t be dismissed or explained… but is he willing to admit UFOs are real? photo by: Skeptiko Today we welcome Dr. John Alexander to Skeptiko to talk about his new book, Reality Denied: Firsthand Experiences with Things that Can’t Happen – But Did. Dr. Alexander is a retired US Army Colonel, with a list of military and non-military distinctions, which are way too long to mention on this show. He’s one of those people, as you’ll hear about when he talks about this book, who really has seen it all and done it all, at least it seems that way. Fortunately, he has written a book about it. John, welcome to Skeptiko, thanks for joining me. Dr. John Alexander: Glad to be here. (later in the interview) Alex Tsakiris: You know, John, I’m reading this amazing book of yours and I’m reading these amazing stories, some of which we just have to cover because we have to get this out there, for folks who don’t have a chance to read it, and you really should read Reality Denied. If you can’t find a dozen just completely paradigm shattering stories there, just by sticking your thumb into the book at any random place, well then, I don’t know how you couldn’t, I guess, is my point. But I kept reading this book and I’m trying to square it with what, I guess is, for a long time been the general overriding meme associated with John Alexander, which is, this guy who debates people at UFO conferences, saying that, “The government doesn’t know anything about UFOs and if they did, I would know that they did, and I know, and they don’t and…” What is that whole meme all about, is that an accurate characterization of the way a lot of people think of you? It seems to be out there and is it true? Dr. John Alexander: I can’t speak to what other people think, but I don’t think, particularly with the recent revelations, that I can say, if it were there I would know about it. I think you’re talking about the recent stuff that [unclear 00:20:12] has been fortunate enough to release on studies that are going on. What you find is, you have tiny pockets of people who have had personal experience and the ability to research that. One of the things I mention in all of these phenomena, UFOs, near-death experiences, precognition, you know, take your phenomena, remember the government, whatever that is, is made up of millions of individuals, and what we know is, across the board, that a vast number of them, probably more than a majority, have had some kind of psychic experience in their life. If it’s UFOS, probably 10% have actually seen something that they believe. [Adult 00:21:05] and particularly in the military, who have been in threatening situations, you find people who have had near-death experiences. Now, one of the areas where I get into some difficulty in, is that when you get into these areas, and say, “Well, the government should study this,” I’m talking about the US government now, I argue that’s not necessarily the case. You do not expect that the government is responsible for confirming one’s individual belief system. Although, to be fair, and this goes to, I think, to all of the various phenomena,

Michael Tsarion’s books ask tough questions about our occulted history and its impact on modern culture. photo by: Skeptiko What do you think about race? And what does it have to do with the extended consciousness stuff I’m always talking about? (clip from the movie, Get Out) Hey Chris, I want to introduce you to some friends. This is a David and Marcia Wincott, Ronald and Celia Jeffries, Hiroki Tanaka and Jessika and Fredrich Walden. Too many names to remember, but hi. Do you find that being African-American has more advantage or disadvantage in the modern world? It’s a tough one. Yeah, I know man. Hey man. They were asking me about me about the African-American experience, maybe you could take this one. Sorry man. Get out… (screams)… get out… get out! That’s a clip from the 2017 Oscar nominated movie, Get Out. It is a movie that approaches some of these topics of race, genetics, blood lines, in a rather new and novel way. But from my perspective, from the Skeptiko perspective of consciousness and extended consciousness, it just sounds like bullshit. Alex Tsakiris: I mean, I’m just going to be really blunt. I’m looking at a picture of you and I’m going Irishman? Man, this guy’s pretty brown skinned, and then I’m reading your background and you say in your bio that your grandfather was this, kind of, famous Sikh, right? Michael Tsarion: That’s right. I am Irish with Norwegian background and part of my family comes from Northern India. When you say Sikh, that’ll pretty much nail it for people because within Sikhism there’s several different castes and the highest caste, the philosopher caste, was called Jat, and my ancestors came from the Jat Sikhs. So, these are a philosopher caste. This is a caste that is known to be pure Aryan and pure Caucasian. So even though the tone of the skin maybe off-white, you know, darker because of the hot climate and that my ancestors moved over to India, they are, in fact, Caucasians. So, on both sides of my family, it’s Caucasian blood there, partly from Norway and then the Norwegians came over. Alex Tsakiris: This history, the land, the blood. You feel like that’s important to you? Michael Tsarion: Yes, it’s important to me, yeah. (later in the interview) Alex Tsakiris: I’m with you on that, and I think you’re right to point that out and point all the corruption that often comes with religion, because it’s essentially about controlling people. No matter how good the idea is initially, it becomes institutionalized and it becomes this vehicle for control, because it’s pushing on all the same buttons, right? So, your ‘spiritual’, whatever that means to you, development, opens you up and makes you vulnerable to some very human, cultish, manipulative kind of things, and we see that happening again and again. But let me slow down because sometimes we get into talking inside baseball and people aren’t following, and let me tell you a little bit about my journey with Skeptiko, because when I approached these topics for myself, I was relying on science as you alluded to. I thought there were problems with the way that this fake dogmatic materialism was being applied, but I liked the method. So, one of the first questions I came to was this question of con...

Dr. Dr. Julie Beischel has become the preeminent researcher of mediumship and after death communication. photo by: Skeptiko We’ve come along way toward gaining a scientific understanding of after death communication, mainly thanks to the work of one researcher, Dr. Juile Beischel. Julie returns to Skeptiko to talk about her latest work at the Windbridge Institute. Dr. Julie Beischel: Yeah. I’m really worried, they’re medicating young children as schizophrenic, because they’re saying they’re hearing voices. We try and take what we know and provide it to different audiences. I know how to speak researcher, so we’re working hard on trying to take this information and convey it in a way that, the general public, it’s good for them, clinicians, so they know about the reality. I was at conference with clinicians once, and I talked to one woman and she was tremendously surprised that the mediums on our team don’t walk up to people in the grocery store parking lot and give them messages. No, that’s completely unethical, our mediums don’t do that. They agree to a code of ethics and that includes, you don’t provide information to someone who didn’t ask for it, because you don’t know if they’re ready to hear it. That’s a very big concept to get your head around, and the grieving person might not be ready for it. I’ve heard mediums say that in a grocery store line, “You have to tell my wife. You have to tell my wife this message,” and the medium saying, “No, I don’t. I’m not going to do that. You’ve going to have to encourage her to ask me what I do for a living, that’s as far as I go, but I’m not going to tap your wife on the shoulder and say, ‘I have a message for you.’” (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here to help Julie continue this research Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome Dr. Julie Beischel to Skeptiko. Julie is the co-founder and director of research at the Windbridge Research Center, which really is the preeminent organization for the study of mediums and mediumship in the world. As we just talked, for one hour, because I forgot to press the record button, there’s really two sides to saying that, there’s a good and a bad side that this little research center, that Julie has started and, kind of, nurtured along for so long, is really the best there is in the world. It’s a great testament to her and what she’s done, but it also is a little bit of a statement about where we are in general, in trying to get a better handle on survival and consciousness studies that, kind of go against the mainstream neurological model that is rigidly holding onto its position. So, Julie is also, I should mention, the author of several books related to this topic, that you can find on Amazon, and she’s just a great guest and a great friend. Julie, welcome back to Skeptiko, for a third time, because we just did an interview a minute ago. Dr. Julie Beischel: Yes, we did. It was a lovely hour we just spent together. I’m pleased to be here.

Dr. Andrija Puharich researched ESP and psychedelics, brought Uri Geller to the USA, and held seances with aliens… all while working for the deep state. photo by: Skeptiko (clip from the movie Altered Minds…) MKUltra… (disturbing music)… No matter how deep you dig, the only thing you’ll find is more lies… (disturbing music) I’m not the monster in the closet with the electrodes and the drones… oh my god! That’s a clip from the 2015 movie, Altered Minds. The movie gives a human side to the story of MKUltra. That is, the horrible mind control and psychedelic brainwashing experiments done on behalf of us Americans, and Canadians too, by our deep state friends who were “keeping us safe.” The reason I play this clip, and the reason why it’s particularly relevant to today’s wide ranging show on Andrija Puharich, is that our history, the history of parapsychology, the history of the deep state, the history of mind control, the history of the paranormal, is always a lot more complicated than it seems, and that’s because there are these amazing people like Andrija Puharich, who are at the center of these stories. Greg Mallozzi: We have footage of this, I mean, he was there, with a rather small team, I think a guy with a video camera and maybe two other people, a translator, and you know, it’s just incredible, just to think about in the early 50s, here is this guy, romping through the jungle finding these mushrooms. What he did was, he would bring them back to his laboratory in Maine, the Round Table Foundation and he would do all sorts of ESP experiments. So, he would test somebody when they were not on mushrooms, and then he would test somebody when they were dosed on mushrooms, and like you said, his theory was that, when you’re on these things it enhances your ability, it enhances your extrasensory perception ability. Personally, I think there were some really interesting results. This is in The Sacred Mushroom book, if you read it, and there’s a little bit in his book, Beyond Telepathy, which came out around the same time, and there’s very convincing results. Of course, you know, people have all their different opinions on this kind of stuff, but… Alex Tsakiris: Let me jump in there, because part of the reason that people have a lot of different opinions is because of the way the whole psychedelic thing plays out, right? Greg Mallozzi: Yeah. Alex Tsakiris: So, you’ve already set it up, that he has these folks that he’s talking to, Army connections, what we call deep state connections, intelligence connections, but again, as you said before, we’ve got to put this in context, and I would add, we have to put it in a historical context. This is right after World War II, we don’t know what’s up. We know we’ve dodged a major bullet, in terms of controlling the whole world with fascism, so the CIA, the new minted CIA has kind of got a blank check to go and do whatever they have to, to kind of “keep us safe,” kind of thing, you’ve got to imagine. Greg Mallozzi: Exactly. Alex Tsakiris: Now, we find out later that one of the things they got interested in, really early on was, how do we control people… and what if we could control people? They can always spin it around and say, “Hey, we’re trying to protect you, we don’t want other people controlling you. So,

Dr. Jeffrey Kripal’s new book connects his interests in the paranormal and erotic elements of mystical religion.   photo by: Skeptiko (Indian music plays on bus as tour operator speaks) Alright, so welcome to Tantra Tour: The Heart of India. That’s tantra guru, Laurie Handlers from the film, Tantric Tourists. She’s telling her brave band of loyal tourists how her tips for a better sex life can lead to spiritual enlightenment. (Laurie Handlers) In tantra we use our sexual energy to fuel our bodies with our vital life force… Well, at least if we can get the guys to go along… From then, they’re usually shooting it out and when they shoot it out it robs them of their vital life force. So in tantra, men learn to experience their sexual energy internally, like women already naturally do. Maybe I shouldn’t be too quick to throw Laurie under the tour bus. As you’ll hear from today’s guest, the very excellent Dr. Jeffrey Kripal, the link between the esoteric and the erotic goes a lot deeper than we think. In this interview, Jeff and I not only talk about his new book, Secret Body, but also the role that academics are playing in this struggle we have over religion and spirituality. We talk about UFOs since Jeff has done some incredible work in this area. But the main focus of this interview is the connection between the esoteric and the erotic, the moral and the stuff that we maybe, sometimes, too quickly discard as being immoral. Alex Tsakiris: Is there a hierarchal nature to consciousness, because there sure as hell seems to be? I mean, that’s what all the near-death experience research says, research says. That’s what the past lives research says. That’s what the medium research says. It says there’s a hierarchical structure to consciousness. Dr. Jeffrey Kripal: Sometimes people have profound life-changing religious experiences in situations, which are dangerous or deadly or traumatic, and sometimes, deeply charismatic spiritual teachers, who can change people instantly with a touch or a look, can also engage in abusive, sexual abusive or physical abusive behaviors. What I’ve seen over the years is people who want to say that it’s all either pure light and happiness and love or it’s all nonsense, it’s not real. What I’m trying to plead for is, actually it’s messier than that and sometimes we can have profound religious experiences in amoral or even immoral situations. Stay with me, my interview with Dr. Jeffrey Kripal is up next on Skeptiko. (continued below) Click here for forum discussion Click here for to Dr. Jeffrey Kripal’s website Read Excerpts: Alex Tsakiris: The underlying question seems to be, okay, if we get to the point where we accept that we’re in a post-materialistic world and that there’s this extended consciousness realm, which you accept as, kind of, a given in your work,

Dr. Antti Savinainen’s new book on the Finnish Mystic, Pekka Ervast adds to our understanding of the afterlife. photo by: Skeptiko (scary music and sounds from  Jacob’s Ladder) Where do you go when you die? Actor, Tim Robbins got a glimpse in this cult classic, Jacob’s Ladder. And I guess that’s how it is with the afterlife. I mean, we know it’s probably going to work out okay, but what if it doesn’t? So, we keep asking the questions, we keep looking for the answers and once in awhile we come across people who seem to know. Dr. Antti Savinainen: There are no devils in hell, there are just human beings who have evil thoughts and habits and then, as Richard mentioned, there are some kind of thought forms, which are formed by people, but using those evil and murderous, those kinds of thoughts, and they have so much power that they exist there for some time. If a person has, kind of an affinity, harboring those negative feelings and thoughts throughout their life, or at least to some extent, then it might be that this is somehow attracting these lower levels in afterlife. I find it interesting that negative near-death experiences, they tend to reveal that these stages are felt by people who go briefly to the other side, so to speak. That’s today’s guest, Dr. Antti Savinainen, Antti Savinainen, who along with Jouni Marjanen and Jouko Sorvali, has written a new book about the Finnish mystic, Pekka Ervast who, back in the 1890s had a series of amazing mystical experiences that revealed to him what really happens after we die. It’s an interesting book because it has so much overlap with the modern-day near-death experience research. And it raises some of the same questions  we always come back to, regarding science and materialism and our need to try and know and understand this topic from reason, and at the same time, our appreciation for the fact that we know, deep down, reason can’t really get us there. In this interview we’re also joined by the very excellent biblical scholar and spiritual scholar, Richard Smoley, who wrote the introduction for this book. So it was great having him on as well. Before we get started with the interview, let me just mention that Antti has informed me that the book is available, actually right now, as a free eBook. It’s an excellent book, I’ve read it, it’s nicely formatted, it’s not like a cheap freebie, throwaway kind of thing, well-researched. Again, with an excellent introduction by Richard Smoley, it’s just a great book that’s available for free (From Death to Rebirth). So, that’s kind of a cool thing and I’ll of course have the links to that in the show notes. This was a fun interview for me, we talk about all sorts of topics, all the way from the idiosyncratic nature of these mystical experiences and how much are we to trust, My Big Toe, kind of simulation theory, kind of things, versus a total full-blown spiritual or even Christian mystical experience. We talk about backdoor materialism and medicine in particular and whether a proposed head transplant,  that’s supposed to happen in 2018, will reveal anything more about how we might understand consciousness. Then, we even venture off into biblical scholarship and biblical studies, just a little bit,