Radio Misterioso

David Perkins (AKA “Izzy”) is known to many as Chris O’Brien’s longtime research partner (and “mentor” as O’Brien also refers to him.) Perkins began his interest in the cattle and livestock mutilation mystery from the beginnings of the phenomenon (ca. 1975) in southern Colorado. In the over 40 years he has looked at this strange and at times horrifying issue, he has not come to any hard conclusions about what is going on, although he does have specific ideas about a nexus of all the issues connecting the disparate aspects of this puzzling conundrum. At first, he thought it was some government program, because of all the helicopters that kept turning up in reports. He has never really considered the UFO/ alien explanation, since the facts he uncovered proved it was too narrow. During the program, we discussed  the concept of a “memeplex,” which is a group of ideas and beliefs that support and play off each other, and which can increase our understanding of how the problem has been compounded by weak explanations and an eagerness to reach a conclusion. Perkins also considers the mutilation mystery as an example of an “ideoplastic” problem as he believes that it responds to expectations, culture, and researcher bias. He believes an  important path towards understanding can be achieved by thinking of it as a manifestation of “unrecognized forces of nature,” which combine in a way that indicates some sort of directed, conscious purpose that is as yet inscrutable to humans. He compares it to the Gaia hypothesis, in a way that makes Nature itself an active participant, as if we are being sent an undeniable message about how we treat and use domestic animals, and our complicity in the degradation of the environment. We also talked about how the study of animal mutilations has driven many researchers off the deep end or forced them out of the field altogether, although Perkins concludes that his experience has been “one of the greatest educational experiences I could ever imagine.” David contributed one of his own musical compositions for the outro music, recorded only two days before our interview, which took place on his backyard patio in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Photo: Perkins struggles with the ancient concept of a pay phone on a Santa Fe street corner. DIRECT LINK

Chris was in Los Angeles last week after running video for the Contact In The Desert event over the previous weekend. I gave him a day to recover and then visited him where he was staying at a house on the cliffs with an amazing view of the Pacific Ocean. Since we were there and I had my recorder, I asked Chris if he wanted to talk about some of his new projects. He announced his official departure from the Paracast program, which he has co-hosted for almost 10 years, as well as “Out There,” his new podcasting and television venture, and his San Luis Valley Camera Project, which will consist of an automated system to record and document unusual lights and other objects in a world-famous hotspot for aerial phenomena. Chris announced that he has also received an agreement with researcher Ray Stanford to reveal his technical UFO data, ending years of speculation about the nature of the evidence that Stanford has collected, and if he would ever share it publicly. A short, but rich conversation. Enjoy! DIRECT LINK

In this short but info-rich interview, Aaron and I started with a discussion about his excellent podcast “The Saucer Life,” which is one promising direction that podcasting seems to be heading: short, informative, and easy to understand for those not familiar with the material. Aaron is a professor of history and has a strong interest in the social history of the UFO subject. It’s always fascinating to examine what kinds of people gather around the topic and why. We delved into the period of the later 1980s and early 1990s, which Aaron calls the beginning of the “endless commercialization” of ufology. How does information get released by those (supposedly) in the know and how is it consumed, how is it used, and what myths are created and evolved? Along these lines, we recalled the early days of the Art Bell program and how that period laid a lot of the groundwork for the culture as we see it today. Aaron does not recall ever having any sort of sighting of anything unidentified, but he mentioned that his sister remembers looking out of the window when she was four years old and seeing what looked like a big-headed entity, which bothers him a bit! We mulled over why the extraterrestrial hypothesis is popular and has been since the beginning of the modern era. Finally, we discussed the intersection between the cultures of conspiracy and UFOs. Takeaway quote from Aaron: “Bad conspiracy writing answers every question.” I would argue that goes for Saucer writing as well. Above: Aaron during the 2018 Esotericon in Halifax, Nova Scotia. DIRECT LINK

Shannon Taggart is a professional photographer who also captures images of the ineffable world of spiritualism. A visit to the Spiritualist community of Lilydale in upstate New York and an incredibly specific psychic reading started her on a years-long quest to interface with and photograph the people of the town, their beliefs, and their practices. The experiences and pictures she was getting surprised Taggart and blurred the lines between documentation, objectivity, and art. Unexpected lights, images, and “mistakes” in her photos called into question whether she was really just a chronicler of the rituals or was beginning to act as a participant and partner. For those used to photography as a form of pure representation, this interview may be either a revelation or an exercise in frustration. As Shannon said during the interview, “photography is a trickster medium.” Before the show, Shannon described her frustration with explaining her attitude towards the paranormal and encapsulated a perfect approach with the phrase “I take this seriously, but not literally.” This should be a commandment to those who pursue an understanding of the unexplained. We discussed the history and amazingly parallel development of photography and spiritualism: the first public seances were held less than a mile from the first Kodak facility in New York state within a few years of each other. Taggart also described her working method and how it allows for random events and results to enter the process – which may allow some effects that are meaningful to the subjects of her work. She recently attended a seminar which championed a return to the original methods of spirit photography, even the use of vintage equipment and rituals. She also described one Spiritualist who is using a movement tracker from an X-Box to achieve better results. She also described ectoplasm and her attempts to document this controversial phenomenon. Finally, we discussed the crossover between her world and UFO study, and how a creative approach may be used in concert with a scientific mindset to explore new areas of research. DIRECT LINK

George Hansen is an almost mythical figure amongst those who have a deep interest in the issues discussed on this show. His groundbreaking book The Trickster and the Paranormal is required reading for anyone who wishes to tackle these subjects in a meaningful way. What Hansen proposes is what we call “paranormal” is so fraught with forces and traditions that mean to derail and deceive us at every turn, that we cannot wade into this quagmire without realizing all aspects of the issues that await us. This is not because it is necessarily evil, but because the tradition of the Trickster archetype is present in all cultures (whether some want to admit it or not) and appears to provide a balance to the more structured aspects of culture and even our own psyches by introducing randomness and novelty. In a wide-ranging talk, we discussed the trickster archetype, how it addresses inequality in cultures, and how excluded elements (such as the LGBT community) are often imbued with this influence. George tells us about his years of research in parapsychology and the history of such groups over the last century. He also talked about his friendship with author John Keel and his New York Fortean Society. He discussed the world of stage magic and how many magicians are not doctrinaire skeptics, and actually endorse some forms of psychic phenomena as currently unexplained. We also touched on how UFO study ignores the trickster at its peril. There is so much more to unpack in this free-ranging and educational conversation from one of the true originals in the field. DIRECT LINK

One day, we’ll get Miguel to write a book. He’s certainly heading in that direction as evidenced by this recent conversation on a variety of far-reaching subjects. As a writer for The Daily Grail, he searches out and reports/ comments on the latest in the world of the paranormal, UFOs, and consciousness. We wandered all over the map here, from possible reasons for UFO sighting “flaps,” the connections to other strange phenomena, how a close encounter changes the witness, and how Ufology might be able to connect the left and right brains with new methods of research. With this in mind, we also discussed what a really good 21st century UFO conference should look like. We also talked about apport phenomena and his design for the cover of the upcoming contactee encyclopedia A Is For Adamski. Miguel also has a blog and his wonderful art for sale on t-shirts. Above: One of RPJ’s t-shirt designs. DIRECT LINK

Rosemary Ellen Guiley thinks she “came out of the womb writing” and enjoys the process of producing books, which is probably the first time any author has told me this. Guiley is a highly-regarded paranormal researcher with 65 books to her name, that range from encyclopedias of saints and angels, to the divination technique of scrying, to witchcraft, and of course, UFOs. Her new book (co-written with Michael Brein) is entitled The Road to Strange: UFOs, Aliens and High Strangeness. The book features first person accounts of dramatic UFO encounters and includes not only the sighting accounts themselves, but more importantly, the witness’ impressions and emotions during and after, which I believe is very important. We talked about this aspect of emerging research, and how this might be changing UFO study. We discussed the differences between male and female investigators, and how witnesses react to both. We also brought up the recent controversy over the Chicago mothman sightings and how investigators occasionally seem to enjoy fighting with each other more than the actual research they are supposedly doing. We also talked about her work with an abductee research group (FREE) and how the encounters seem to almost always transform the consciousness of the witness. We delved into the shadow people phenomenon and issues with ouija boards (which is the subject of at least two of her books) and the techniques used in scrying. There was some light debate and discussion on the extraterrestrial hypothesis, and Guiley’s idea that observed alien entities are most likely inter-dimensional beings. DIRECT LINK

I have been following the work of Dr. Dean Radin for over 20 years. In that time, I have been privileged to interview him twice. His new book Real Magic will be released just after this show posts and for me, it is his best to date. Real Magic looks at the history of magic in western thought and practice, and suggests that we can legitimately examine issues and concepts formerly considered forbidden by science, such as manifesting thoughts, fulfilling wishes, and considering the relationship of consciousness to what we know as the physical world. Radin almost became a concert violinist, but luckily for some of us, he decided to go into the sciences. We spoke about this artistic background and how it affects his research. As his career began to track into the study of parapsychology, Radin realized that there was (and still is) a great deal of prejudice in the academic and scientific communities surrounding the study of psychic phenomena and especially “magic,” although he senses that this is slowly changing. As he points out in the interview, if a system of inquiry does not explain everything in its world, then it is wrong or needs revision. We discussed what might happen if magical effects were commonplace (he thinks it could  be more dangerous than the atomic bomb) and the idea that any other intelligence in the universe may be waiting for us to make some sort of telepathic contact before communicating with us at all. Radin also answered the question of “if we can control reality, why can’t I manifest gold and diamonds?” He also presented a model of the universe based on information and consciousness, and how to treat an individual who experiences psi functioning firsthand, and has their worldview turned upside down. DIRECT LINK

Preston Dennett has been looking at UFO cases and interviewing witnesses for almost 30 years. In that time, he has interviewed hundreds (and maybe even thousands) of witnesses, investigated OBEs and even had his own close encounters. We began (as one does) with his start in the field and his surprise at how many people he knew had seen flying unidentifieds in his local area near Los Angeles. Next we went back and forth on the “new disclosure” and how truthful and useful it might be. We both believe that the Navy is more involved with the subject than most people realize, and that this has been going on for many years. I asked Preston why he believes the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis is the best theory for UFO origins, and he made a good case for his opinion, although we both agreed that no one theory explains the vast spectrum of evidence. Preston has delved into many strange cases where a witness to a UFO also has other paranormal events crop up in their lives, such as haunting and poltergeist phenomena. He also described a very dramatic sighting he had with one repeat witness who seemed to be able to either call up objects or know where they would be beforehand. This was an enjoyable couple of hours with a veteran, open-minded, boots-on-the-ground researcher. His new book is Undersea UFO Base: An In-Depth Investigation of USOs in the Santa Catalina Channel. DIRECT LINK

Longtime friend Nick Redfern joined me to talk about his new volume, The Slenderman Mysteries: An Internet Urban Legend Comes to Life. We caught up a bit on recent news and then dove in. The “Slenderman” was the result of a 2009 internet contest to come up with the most frightening character imaginable. The idea escaped from the forum where it was born and took on a life of its own, eventually appearing in fan fiction, photo manipulations, artwork, and even a web series. Children and teens were especially taken with the image and began to believe the entity actually existed. This culminated in an infamous case where two girls attempted to murder one of their playmates in a bid to become minions of the Slenderman. In the course of research for the book, Nick discovered that things resembling the entity had actually been reported in the area before it was even created. He cited a psychic who, when trying to solve an old murder case, described a tall thin man in a suit carrying a dead child, as well as a group of hunters who reported a sighting of something similar years before the meme took hold. We also discussed the possibility and history of manifested thoughtforms and tulpas, and how the legend may have literally come to life. In the last 30 minutes, we discussed possible new directions for UFO study and conference presentations that would include many different viewpoints. DIRECT LINK

Researcher Peter Robbins is perhaps best known for his book Left At East Gate, which was enveloped in a controversy that led to a painful process that ended in Robbins disowning the work. He has discussed the issues surrounding this extensively elsewhere. In other news, his 95-year-old father Allan recently wrote his memoirs, which Peter sent to me as a present. After reading it, I knew we would have a great time discussing the book and the span of 20th-century history which it covered. We even took a few minutes to discuss the history of American comedy and other books written by non-famous people about the times in which they lived. Since we couldn’t avoid it, we also discussed UFOs and Peter’s experiences while attending the UN hearings on the subject in 1978, as well as his interactions with Soviet reporters as they covered the famous Voronezh incident in 1989. Peter is working on a new collection of his extensive writings and has also embarked on a project about the life and possible suspicious death of the first U.S. Secretary of Defense James Forrestal. We also discussed Wilhelm Reich’s book Contact With Space, and the merits and problems with the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Above: Peter and his dad. (Credit: Elise Skalwold) DIRECT LINK

This was another fun and informative conversation with a researcher who has actually applied some of the methods we have talked about on this show for awhile now. We spent the first part of the program discussing witness-centered anomalies study, and how to gather data which is essentially personal experience and not readily amenable to charts and graphs. Susan suggested that examining the symbolic and folkloric aspects in an extraordinary experience may be a fruitful start. She also believes that good research also comes from a sense of trust between the witness and the researcher. We wondered if looking too closely at the anomalous would cause it to change in basic ways and might remain just out of our grasp. At my insistence, Susan listed some of her favorite writers and thinkers in the field, such as George Hansen and surprisingly enough, Jim Moseley. We ended with a short gerrymander on ancient pagan practices in Italy and how some of the places named in older texts may still be hotspots for paranormal activity and sightings of strange aerial objects. Photo: Susan models the latest fashion in non-dogmatic strategy for dealing with trolls. DIRECT LINK

David Metcalfe is a researcher, writer and multimedia specialist focusing on the interrelationship of media, culture, and consciousness. We began the conversation with his deep study of the Santa Muerte belief and its role as an alternative to people who feel that their needs and lives are not in accord with traditional religions. There was a nice segue into the role of mediums of communication and its effect on the message and structure of belief. We also spent some time on the idea that a UFO encounter often permanently changes the mental state of the witness. We examined the role of the researcher and how much they can be embedded with their subjects and still maintain sufficient objectivity, and whether they should. Then we discussed Metcalfe’s feeling that Jung’s philosophy of alchemy is limiting, because it leaves out important physical aspects of the alchemical process. We thought that this might be relevant to recent discussions of UFO “alloys” or artifacts. David’s phone ran out of juice and we arranged to finish up at a later date. Of course, we went another hour. I asked about his statement he wrote to me that he “had no idea what lay beyond the shining saucer” in terms of an inspiration and catalyst for personal change. He told me about the work of Conan The Barbarian creator Robert E Howard and his claim that he channeled his story material, much like Richard Shaver. We spent much of the last hour on the motivational speaker/ guru Tony Robbins and his intriguing world, and ended with a few minutes on the legendary self-help book Psycho Cybernetics. In all, a very fun and detailed 3 hours. Image is original art by Dave. DIRECT LINK

My longtime friend Courtney is becoming our resident weird music guru. Just in time for the holiday, we present our “anti-Valentine’s Day” show, featuring murder ballads, breakup songs, songs of frustration and unrequited love, and pure bitching about the opposite sex from all sides of the fence, as well as “answer songs” which poke fun at more well-known hits. Just to show we weren’t complete killjoys and full of unrepentant bitterness, Courtney chose to end the show on a hopeful note. As usual, we do not censor, and some of the lyrics are not meant for tender ears. Harry Nilsson – You’re Breaking My Heart Peter Cook – Bedazzled Aaron Neville – Over You Porter Wagoner – Lonelyville Louvin Brothers – Knoxville Girl Shirley Collins – The Oxford Girl Roger Bailey – Did She Break Your Heart? Joe Tex – Pneumonia Gene Goza – These Spurs (Are Made For Ridin’) Teddy & Darrel – These Boots Are Made for Walking Hunx and His Punx – You Don’t Like Rock ‘n’ Roll Roy Clark – Right Or Left At Oak Street Jake Thackray – On Again Josephine XV – I’m Happy They Took You Away, Ha-Haa! Earth Girl Helen Brown – Story Of An Earth Girl Red Ingle and the Natural Seven – (I Love You) For Seventy Mental Reasons Bull Moose Jackson – Big Ten Inch Barnes and Barnes – Pussy Whipped B.A. Johnston – Everyone You Date After Me Is a Sack of Shit Nora Keyes – Look At You, You’re Ugly Betty Davis – Anti Love Song Singing Sadie – Let’s Call ‘er Lil Randy Newman – Pants Ivor Cutler – Beautiful Cosmos DIRECT LINK

My long-time friend, amazing author, and Fortean Skylaire Alfvegren joined me in a very informal talk about subjects of mutual interest. The interview occurred right around the time of the most devastating fires around Los Angeles and Southern California. We talked about the real definition of a “fortean,” and the fact that you need to have a strong sense of humor if you are going to last in the study of the weird. That led to a discussion of our comedy heroes. Skylaire recounted a dramatic early morning UFO sighting at Edwards Air Force Base in 1988 when she and her mother were waiting to see a space shuttle landing. She wanted to talk a little politics and internet freedom (or the lack thereof) and our talk drifted into issues of staying pure in goals as a writer. As usual we covered a lot of topics, and hope you enjoy. Photo: Skylaire at lunch with John Keel. Yes, I took that one. DIRECT LINK