![HBR IdeaCast show](https://d3dthqtvwic6y7.cloudfront.net/podcast-covers/000/026/923/small/hbr-ideacast.jpg)
Summary: Ethan Bernstein, Harvard Business School professor, and John Bunch, holacracy implementation lead at Zappos, discuss the online retailer's transition to a flat, self-managed organization. They are the coauthors of the HBR article "Beyond the Holacracy Hype."