Summary: On this episode of Design Matters, Debbie Millman talks to <span class="mw-redirect">German-American</span> <span class="mw-redirect">industrial designer</span> and co-founder of frog design, Hartmut Esslinger, about working for Steve Jobs in the early days of Apple, about how creating the design template for Apple, or any product line, is similar to playing music and about his book <em>Design Forward: Creative Strategies for Sustainable Change.</em>
