![Design Matters with Debbie Millman show](https://d3dthqtvwic6y7.cloudfront.net/podcast-covers/000/027/070/small/design-matters-with-debbie-millman-2009-2012.jpg)
Summary: On this episode of Design Matters, Debbie Millman talks to designer and writer Michael Rock about his book: <em>Multiple Signatures</em>, being both a writer and a designer, self-hatred in design, the benefits of being an outsider, branding and the complexity of design as an activity.