![Design Matters with Debbie Millman show](https://d3dthqtvwic6y7.cloudfront.net/podcast-covers/000/027/070/small/design-matters-with-debbie-millman-2009-2012.jpg)
Summary: In this audio interview with Debbie Millman, Cheryl Heller discusses collaboration, innovation, her new MFA program at SVA and why the word "brand" is like leather pants.
Summary: In this audio interview with Debbie Millman, Cheryl Heller discusses collaboration, innovation, her new MFA program at SVA and why the word "brand" is like leather pants.