The Fourth Way

I had the opportunity to interview Abby Cleckner. We talked about government as a means whereby society diffuses their responsibility. 0:00 Intro 8:15 Three diffusions of power 10:45 Top down diffusion 16:10 Milgram Experiment 20:45 resources 22:00 importance of integrity and small faithfulness 26:05 how government diffuses/concentrates responsibility upward 31:20 outsourcing to state 34:45 isn't Anarchism a false dichotomy? 39:00 refusing to play the game illigitimates the state 40:00 doesn't pooling our power help to solve bigger problems 42:30 States create the problems we ask them to fix 46:15 bystander effect 47:45 power corrupts 56:00 positive diffusion of power 1:00:00 body of Christ/church as politics 1:09:15 importance of all members and actions 1:11:00 Abby plug 1:11:35 Outro thoughts

This is a fitting episode to follow up our previous one. American Christians have a very particular view of government and the power it offers, which tends to undermine the real job we have as ambassadors of a different King and Kingdom. Hear the words of Pastor Yi from the persecuted church in China, who offers us a reorienting perspective on where our hope and power truly resides, as well as a follow-up interview with Hannah Nation.

A huge thanks to Seth White for the awesome music! Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/thewayfourth/?modal=admin_todo_tour YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTd3KlRte86eG9U40ncZ4XA?view_as=subscriber Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theway4th/  Kingdom Outpost: https://kingdomoutpost.org/ My Reading List Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/21940220.J_G_Elliot My Reading List Google Docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10h_yL0vO8-Ja_sxUJFclff11nwUONOG6/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=103262818858083924733&rtpof=true&sd=true "Generous Justice": https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8414177-generous-justice?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=EirtdWLhk5&rank=1 "Way of the Dragon or Way of the Lamb": https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55918687-the-way-of-the-dragon-or-the-way-of-the-lamb?ref=nav_sb_noss_l_17 Solzhenitsyn: https://www.solzhenitsyncenter.org/live-not-by-lies Havel: https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23 Thanks to our monthly supporters Philip Does Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Does the biblical concept of rendering unto Caesar mean that we ought to pay taxes? A lot of Christian anarchists argue that we are not obligated to pay taxes, and I think their arguments are pretty good. "Fight Like Jesus" has a great section talking about this. However, I explore a different approach and draw a number of analogies in this episode to explain an alternative interpretation which views taxation as a moral act a Christian can take part in.

This episode explores Paul's invocation of his Roman citizenship and asks if we aren't to be citizens of earthly kingdoms. As today is Juneteenth, we use Frederick Douglas's "What to the Slave is the Fourth of July" to draw some parallels.

An interview with Robert Meeropol discussing how propaganda played a role in the execution of his parents by the State, and how it continues to play a role in society today. Pre-Episode Introduction 0:00:00 - Introduction and Robert's story 0:04:20 - Manichean nature of propaganda 0:08:20 - Government destroys culture, not just resistance 0:10:15 - Timing of this episode Interview with Robert 0:13:45 - Propaganda in the case of Robert's parents 0:19:15 - Role of fear and othering in propaganda 0:27:25 - Why was it important for propaganda that the kids of the Rosenbergs were targeted as threats? 0:38:25 - Propaganda in the media as a sedative that gets people to work within the system rather than buck it 0:51:50 - How can we know truth in a world saturated by propaganda? 1:00:30 - Why can't the government bring itself to admit they're wrong? 1:11:45 - Why do we need activists today if we solved discrimination with Civil Rights? 1:21:50 - Resource recommendations and plugs

We address the rebuttal to Christian anarchism which says that participation in government is a duty and responsibility in order to effectively engage the world.

A huge thanks to Seth White for the awesome music! Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/thewayfourth/?modal=admin_todo_tour YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTd3KlRte86eG9U40ncZ4XA?view_as=subscriber Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theway4th/  Kingdom Outpost: https://kingdomoutpost.org/ My Reading List Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/21940220.J_G_Elliot My Reading List Google Docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10h_yL0vO8-Ja_sxUJFclff11nwUONOG6/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=103262818858083924733&rtpof=true&sd=true Anarchochristian "Anarchy in Pennsylvania": https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/anarchy-in-pennsylvania/id1339744391?i=1000447731440 Scars of Independence: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31453065-scars-of-independence?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=cYitg7NK0m&rank=1 War is a Racket: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/198259.War_is_a_Racket?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=7hHcGpWvmR&rank=1 Lysander Spooner and the Post Office: https://explorethearchive.com/lysander-spooner Postal Clause: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Clause USPS Monopoly: https://www.cato.org/tax-budget-bulletin/privatizing-us-postal-service Thanks to our monthly supporters Philip Does Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

We address the rebuttal that while government wasn't intended by God, it is an allowance or concession necessary to humanity after the fall.

We address the rebuttal that godly people in the Bible held governmental positions, therefore Christian anarchism doesn't hold.

A follow up to our previous episode on policing, this episode is a reading of Andy Alexis-Baker's "The Gospel or a Glock," read with his permission.

If one is a nonviolent anarchist, is it ethically immoral or disingenuous for them to activate the police force in response to crimes? This episode explores how a Christian Anarchist can genuinely and morally call upon the police to engage evil.

This episode looks at how our political idolatry has caused us to remove a vital moral option from our repertoire - abstention in voting. We explore how abstention compares to the biblical call of justice in our lives, as well as looking at how abstention can actually shape the social and political landscape.

This episode zooms in a bit on the topic of legislation. I explore a recent book I read entitled "The Faithful Executioner," which follows the life of an executioner who lived during a time of significant legislative change which may help to illuminate our faulty elevation of legislation's power.

We turn from looking at the foundations of government to look at what government supposedly does for us. Over the next few episodes we'll look at issues like laws, voting, and policing, all the while asking ourselves two questions. First, do these "goods" really do what they claim to do, and second, even if these provisions do some good, do the ends justify the means? Does doing some good warrant a Christian's participation in a system we have seen is intrinsically violent, corrupt, and authoritatively baseless? In this episode we specifically look at legislation - probably the most positively touted of all government's functions. It is laws which do good and restrain evil at the point of a sword, and without these laws, the world would be violent anarchy.